MSE News: Anglian Water SoLow customer? It's axing the tariff meaning bill hikes

Mee

Listened to the podcast whilst on the move yesterday. Confused as to why they seemed to think the phasing in was starting this April.

Cardew

tghe-retford wrote: »

I think you may have inadvertently made a case to force single people to find a partner, childless couples to have children and suggest the abolition of Single Occupancy Discounts for Council Tax, get rid of meals for one and increase the single supplement for holidays so as to appease larger households.

The thing is for single people and childless couples, its these larger households that the Government and to some extent, companies, will not want to displease when it comes to policy. They mostly vote, the former mostly do not.

I am unsure of the point you are making.

As far as I am aware, amongst the 20 million households in England and Wales on mains water, AW were the only water company operating a tariff like SoLow.

AW have clearly stated why that tariff is being phased out. i.e.

Why is this Happening

In short, SoLow customers receive a subsidy on their bill and that subsidy is paid for by other customers. The subsidy amounted to every non-SoLow customer paying an £7 extra per year to fund the preferential SoLow rate.

I cannot see any logical reason why a larger household, who might be more water efficient than a SoLow customer, should subsidise a SoLow customer, some of whom could be considerably more affluent.

If I have understood your logic correctly, why shouldn't larger households subsidise the gas and electricity bills of those with small households?

JD1492

Hi,

I have joined the MSE Forum, after seeking-out information regarding the phasing-out of the SoLow Tariff, and having spent the last hour or so reading all 10 pages of this thread, I am saddened and angry at some of the responses - particularly by those from Cardew.

Firstly, Cardew, I don't know who you are, but you don't half come across as someone who will believe anything, as long as someone tells you it's on a website, or printed it in a leaflet! :rotfl:I really do get the impression, that if some coporate executive told you that the moon shone in the day, and the sun shone at night, you'd believe it, based purely on the fact you have an unstinting belief in what people tell you. You just assume it's fact, and you let that "fact" override whatever commonsense you may once have had!

With that said, let me state my case: I am disabled, single, living alone and somone who tries to minimises his water usage. As such, I believe I am what any water company would label a "water efficient consumer"! I am also currently on the SoLow Tariff, and am paying - for the 2016/17 billing year - approximately £170. When the SoLow Tariff is phased out, my bill will increase to well over £300 - according to Anglian Water (AW) themselves. Which part of my bill doubling, counts as me saving money or paying less?! :mad:

Cardew's argument that because AW tell us they aren't going to be making any more money from the phasing-out of the SoLow Tariff, (and thus the increase in arond 300,000 customers who will be transferring onto another, more expensive Tariff of one kind or another), that that means they definitely aren't going to be making any more money! Ludicrous! There's only one reason AW is phasing-out of the SoLow Tariff - to make more money from its customers! It's that simple!

Just because they claim they aren't going to be making any more money, doesn't mean that's the actual case. If my bill doubles, from what it was before, to what I will be paying, then commonsense (and a basic understanding of maths) would tell you that they will now be making an extra 100% in money from me, alone. If even 10% of the 300,000 customers on SoLow end-up paying 100% more, then that means that AW are absolutely and definitely going to be making more money! Claiming otherwise is complete bulldust!

And just because AW claim that people will only pay 5% or 10 more (on average), again, that doesn't mean that most - or even many - customers actually will end-up only paying 5% or 10% more! So, again, another claim AW is making, that is mostly inaccurate and false. If five out of 10 people kill themselves from jumping off a cliff, it may mean that five of them didn't jump, but it also means that five damn well did! Statistics can be used to manipulate anything, and make it sound better or worse than it really is. That's basic Public Relations tactics, also known as "spin"...

...Which brings me onto another of Cardew's views: that if someone says something, then it must be taken as gospel fact. I can say that we oxygen doesn't exist, and human beings actually only breathe Nitrous Oxide, and that the human body doesn't need oxygen. I can claim it to be true, but that doesn't make it true! And yes, even if I post that information on a posh-looking website, run but a multi-million pound company, doesn't make the information any more honest, reliable or decent! It's still just opinion, not fact!

Oh, and whilst we're talking about "facts" and "evidence" Cardew, you seem hellbent on assuming that all companies evidence is accurate, but that when other consumers in the MSE Forums claim something is fact, you dismiss it as merely the "opinion" of someone who is ill-informed. I hate to say this - well, actually, I don't - but you've been brainwashed! AW's facts are not facts at all! They are still opinion, designed to allay fears a customer might have that will see their bill balloon. It's not fact, because a customer's bill depends on so many factors:
- how many people in their house,
- how much water they use,
- how much that water is charged at per cubic meter,
- the cost of the standing charge,
- any deductions/rebates/schemes that might discount the bill, etc, etc.

You're taking none of that into account. You're basing your opinions, on too many assumptions!

AW states: "The lower charges for SoLow favours households with only 1 or 2 occupants, not necessarily households that are most water efficient. As more and more households become metered and manage their water consumption, the lower charges for smaller households cannot be justified."

Not all households can be put on a water-meter. (I can't because I live in a block of flats, and AW engineers can find no way of fitting a meter into my flat, as they can't locate where my water supply comes in, and the fact I don't have a stop-!!!! either!) Secondly, unless AW defines what "water efficient" actually is, then constantly using that term is meaningless! Thirdly, saying that "the lower charges... cannot be justified" is also equally erroneous. They can all easily be justified - morally, legally, and financially. But AW aren't trying to justiy them, they're trying to find a way to justify the reasons for phasing-out the tariff in the first place, which is not the same thing.

AW claim they've talked to their customers, about phasing-out the SoLow tariff. I know of no one who has ever been questioned by AW for their views on billing or services. Have any of you in the MSE Forums? :question: Have any of you been asked for your opinions, and then told AW that you thought it was a good idea to phase-out the SoLow Tariff? Nope, thought not. Maybe AW would like to publish this evidence, so we - the customers - can examine it?

AW also claim that people taken off the SoLow tariff can potentially move onto the LITE tariff instead. Again, that sounds lovely, but nowhere does it tell you how to qualify for the LITE tariff - and going from the comments in this thread, it would seem that many of you are non the wiser either. Moreover, AW seem unable and unwilling to say who does qualify for it (or is eligible for it)! Amazingly, AW haven't notified people about the LITE tariff's existance either. I wonder why? Just stating that all the information is online, is unfair, as has been pointed out by other MSE Forum members in this thread. Not everyone has decent internet access, to get to that information.

Cardew also argues that because no other water company offers a tariff like SoLow on AW does, that that somehow makes the phasing-out of SoLow acceptable and morally justified! Umm, no it blinking well doesn't! :mad: There's always going to be someone better off than you, and worse off than you. No system can ever be 100% fair. The only fair system, is that everyone pays the same rate per cubic meter of water they use, for the volume of water they use. If you use 1000 cubic meters of water, you pay for 1000 cubic meters. If you use 100,000, you pay for 100,000. The less you use, the less you pay.

But removing a tariff, and then trying to pass the buck by saying that - in fact - your new, higher-cost tariff is better for you, and fairer - is just complete horsedung, and AW and most sensible MSE Forum users know that it's horsedung! :mad: Cardew's argument is that (presumably) because he pays a high price for his water, therefore everyone else should also pay a high price, is the quintessential essence of Tory mantra! It's the case of "Well, if I don't get something for nothing, then neither should you"! :mad: Talk about uncaring!


The way AW has handled the phasing-out of the SoLow tariff has been extremely badly handled, almost to the point of farce. I've NOT received a leaflet or letter explaining that it was being phased-out, and all the information I've found out about it, has had to be located in my own time, and by indirect means. A less suspicious person could argue AW are doing this deliberately, and are making a concerted effort to hide things from the customer. And they might be right! :rotfl:

Ultimately, it comes down to this: AW is profiteering off of the misery and pain, of those of us who - usually through no fault of our own - are in a less financially enviable position. Whilst we can all use less water, we can only reduce our use by so much. After that, short of not washing, or bathing, then there's only so much water you can save before it becomes hazardous to your health. I would love to be in a world, where I can pay all my bills, without a worry, and know that no one is better off, nor worse off, than I am. But that's cloud-cuckoo land! I have no objections to paying for my water. What I DO object too, is being told that because I'm poorer than others, that that means I am not playing the game fairly, and thus, to make it fairer, I need to pay more! :mad:

Sincere apologies for the long post. If you've stayed with me this far, then thanks for reading, and I hope that we can all come to some way of getting AW to offer us some other alternative to the SoLow tariff!

Cardew

Welcome to the forum.


You will note on your post the following notice 'ALERT NEWBIE MSE requests you give new posters a chance! Please be especially nice.'


So I will simply say your post is both unnecessarily rude and incorrect in many respects.


You clearly have no idea of how water companies are funded.(you could start by reading this http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/about-us/plans/


If you believe that that AW are lying and the intent of phasing out SoLow is to make more money, then why not take your complaint to the Consumer Council for Water, Ofwat or even your local MP.

JD1492

Oh, dearest Cardew,

It's a shame you didn't bother to compose something genuinely worthwhile me responding too. Instead, you've just chosen the standard response of "I'm right, because I know I'm right, therefore I absolutely am right"!

You claim I know nothing, yet demonstrate nothing to backup your stance that proves I'm actualy wrong. All you've done - as you've done with other people in this thread - is post links to company or government-based websites, taken what they say as "absolute fact", and then told me that because you believe it's absolute fact, therefore it absolutely is 100% truth, and therefore the rest of us are idiots, simpletons or clueless braindead halfwits who can't possibly know more than the Great Cardew of the MSE Forums!

Do you work for Anglian Water by any chance, because you seem to be extremely keen on not having a bad word said about them? :rotfl:Please come back, when you have something more constructive to backup what you what you claim, other than links to highly-biased material taken from government and/or water company websites!

Norman_Castle

JD1492 wrote: »

Not all households can be put on a water-meter. (I can't because I live in a block of flats, and AW engineers can find no way of fitting a meter into my flat, as they can't locate where my water supply comes in, and the fact I don't have a stop-!!!! either!)

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/households/your-water-bill/assessed/

JD1492

@Norman Castle - Thank You for the information, but AW have put me on an Assessed tariff - namely the SoLow tariff - the very tariff that will soon be ending! So, that doesn't really help solve the problem.

As such, I've put in a complaint to AW Managing Director Mr Peter Simpson - a man who "earns" over £1m per year, according to AW's own site! :mad: (Must be really nice to be able to earn an amount in one year, that would pay my SoLow bill's for the next 40-odd years of my life!)

AW really need to get this issue sorted out, once and for all, rather than giving out random, peacemeal advice and info, randomly to different people!

Mee

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

You clearly have no idea of how water companies are funded.(you could start by reading this http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/about-us/plans/

You keep stating this, but I am yet to see 'you' explain it to a 'dead horse' like me. The link is to Ofwat's five-year business plan our annual forward programme, and we are now fully aware of their poor track record:

Water companies got £800m windfall and customers got NOTHING: Investigations finds bills were higher than necessary for five years because of flaws in way prices were set

Norman_Castle

JD1492 wrote: »

@Norman Castle - Thank You for the information, but AW have put me on an Assessed tariff - namely the SoLow tariff - the very tariff that will soon be ending! So, that doesn't really help solve the problem.

Ofwat state you should be offered an assessed charge.

http://www.ofwat.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/prs_lft_101117meters.pdf
Your company should also offer you the option to switch to an ‘assessed charge’.
This is an estimate of what your metered bill might have been had a meter
been installed

How will Anglian Water comply with this when the SoLow tariff has ended?

JD1492

Hi Norman,

I guess we'll all find out what happens, once the SoLow tariff ends, and AW decides whether to abide byt Ofwat's guidance about an Assessed Charge bill. Knowing AW though, I suspect they'll find some slimy way to not abide by it, citing "costs" or some other BS nonsense!

That said, I recently heard a rumour that by 2020, it may be possible for customers to start getting their water from any water supplier, no matter who the supplier is. Not sure how it would actually work, but if that were to happen, then that might be a positive thing, if one or more) companies decide to start offering a similar kind of tariff to SoLow.

But like I said, this is only a rumour, and I may have misheard it. Either way, it still doesn't change the fact that much of what Cardew has written in this thread, is of a highly biased and questionable nature, and that AW need to get their act together... in my humble opinion!