Vehicle Control Service / Liverpool John Lennon Airport Charge

xdiva99

A relative received this letter in the post from Vehicle Control Services, after stopping for approx 10 seconds or less on the road that leads up to the airport (and just past the turn off for the short stay car park). The reason for the contravention is "stopping on a roadway where stopping is prohibited". It states the driver is contractually bound to their t&cs when entering "the site", but surely there is no contract.

I have searched for help on here, but struggled to get a clear answer to the following. I understand it is incorrect to just ignore these letter any more, but I have also read that the the appeals procedure with this company and the other body involved in such appeals will 100% result in rejections and therefore fairly pointless?

What will happen if I just ignore the letter? Are they likely to take anyone to court? Should I respond via e-mail stating that any such case would be defnded? Is it relevant that you cannot make out the driver on the evidence, and do you have to inform a private company of the driver in a case where the law has not been broken?

Thanks.

PS - I tried to attach an image of the letter (or even just the link), which I uploaded to another server but as a new user it won't appear to allow me to do that?

HermanMunster

xdiva99 wrote: »

I have searched for help on here, but struggled to get a clear answer to the following. I understand it is incorrect to just ignore these letter any more, but I have also read that the the appeals procedure with this company and the other body involved in such appeals will 100% result in rejections and therefore fairly pointless?


What will happen if I just ignore the letter? Are they likely to take anyone to court? Should I respond via e-mail stating that any such case would be defnded? Is it relevant that you cannot make out the driver on the evidence, and do you have to inform a private company of the driver in a case where the law has not been broken?

You're correct that the VCS and 'independent' appeals service are fairly pointless but there's a lot on here about them, and John Lennon Airport specifically. This one's interesting:

hxxp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5177878&page=2
(change the 'hxxp' in the above link to 'http')

Yes, it's definitely relevant that you cannot see the driver. You don't have to tell them. In fact it's crucial that in any correspondence with them you give absolutely no hint as to who the driver was.

The_Deep

but I have also read that the the appeals procedure with this company and the other body involved in such appeals will 100% result in rejections and therefore fairly pointless?

Not really. If they are going to reject what prima facie appears to be a valid appeal, you can raise the question of their independence with a judge, should they be daft enough to do court. We need to get one of these anonymous adjudicators in front of a proper lawyer.

Redx

xdiva99 wrote: »

What will happen if I just ignore the letter?

chase up letters for up to 6 years and possible debt collectors , possibly an LBC and possibly an MCOL (FOR UP TO 6 YEARS under the small claims rules)

xdiva99 wrote: »

Are they likely to take anyone to court?

POSSIBLY, nobody can tell you either way, its a question with no real answer , apart from MAYBE

xdiva99 wrote: »

Should I respond via e-mail stating that any such case would be defnded?

you could but they will ignore this as bluster

xdiva99 wrote: »

Is it relevant that you cannot make out the driver on the evidence, and do you have to inform a private company of the driver in a case where the law has not been broken?

the only person who knows who the driver actually is, is the driver or anyone who knows them, all EXCEL can see are people

no you do not have to name the driver, in this case its imperative that the drivers details are not given out, nor revealed either

no laws were used here , this is an invoice for a private matter, they havent used airport bylaws for this, so no law has been broken (its a civil matter only)

xdiva99 wrote: »

PS - I tried to attach an image of the letter (or even just the link), which I uploaded to another server but as a new user it won't appear to allow me to do that?

it wont let you use a LIVE LINK, but it will allow you to post a DEAD LINK

so change the http to hxxp when you post the URL

xdiva99

Here's a scan of the letter

hxxp://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=29wajpg&s=8#.VQrluI4qeSo

So I first send an appeal to VCS.

Using the points from hxxp://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5195073&highlight=ias+appeal - are the following points at all relevant?

1. The registered keeper is not liable for this charge under POFA 2012 as Humberside Airport is subject to airport bylaws.
2. Notice to Keeper sent outside mandatory timescales for the legislation VCS are using to bring action (POFA 2012).

The "invoice" makes no mention of POFA 2012?
And do I bother making these points to VPS, or wait for second appeal with IAS?

xdiva99

The_Deep wrote: »

but I have also read that the the appeals procedure with this company and the other body involved in such appeals will 100% result in rejections and therefore fairly pointless?

Not really. If they are going to reject what prima facie appears to be a valid appeal, you can raise the question of their independence with a judge,

What is an example of a valid appeal in this case then? Everything I've read suggests 99.9% of appeals are denied, because they can.

Redx

the NEWBIES sticky thread has the template letter for the initial appeal to VCS

the quote you qouted says Humberside airport , yours is JLA in liverpoool

point 2 only applies if the NTK was "out of time" and they are quoting POFA

as for the NTK, they are not quoting POFA yet have sent the RK the invoice, not the driver , yet if not using POFA the RK is not deemed liable for the invoice (two faced)

Umkomaas

Here's the only known (here) recent successful 'Airport' appeal to the IAS. Read through the whole thread. It's related to Humberside Airport, so you'd need to make sure that any reference to HA is replaced with JLA in the appeal you make.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5195073

You also need to read The Parking Prankster's demolition of the signage at JLA.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/03/vehicle-control-systems-signage-at.html

Use both sources to draw from in constructing your own appeal to IAS.

Redx

also read and use info from this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5132921

and this thread has useful recent info too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5191690

HermanMunster

xdiva99 wrote: »

What is an example of a valid appeal in this case then? Everything I've read suggests 99.9% of appeals are denied, because they can.

You have a valid appeal: you were not the driver and POFA 2012 does not apply. It's governed by airport byelaws so POFA 2012 cannot apply, and VCS say they will pursue you on the assumption you were the driver, which they simply cannot do. That's why you must not give any indication who the driver was.

The argument for using IAS (even though it's a sham) is that even if you lose it's not binding on you, and should they be daft enough ever to try court you can show you've used all possible routes to get it resolved before getting to that stage and wasting court time. Then, when it gets chucked out at the court stage, it further exposes the IAS for the sham it is.

The_Deep

Add to what Herman says above, if they unlawfully refuse you a v.a.t. invoice when asked, or otherwise refuse to account for vat, it is reasonable to assume that this is a breach of contract claim, in which case they must account for their losses as a result of the event.