Deemed energy supply problem

kev100_2

Hi,

(I put this in another forum by mistake, so reposting in the energy forum)

We had a bill turn up from Npower with our name on it for a meter that we had no knowledge of.

We bought our house 18 months ago No.144 and the neigbour in No.145 had converted his house to 2 flats and its been like that for many years. When we took possession the neigbour mentioned that there were lights in the shared passageway (these are for the benefit of his tennents as one of the flats the only way in is through the passageway) and he asked us if we would contribute to the bill, we catagorically said no as we didnt have any need for them as we would install our own lights from our own supply that are switchable from inside our house. We have never turned on his light switch as the only reason we need to go into the passage is to read our gas and electricity meter.

So 12 months after we purchased our house the neighbour sold his house and the new owner kept the house as flats, did some minor uogrades, and upgraded the lights that his tennents use in the passageway, a clear intention for him to continue to use those lights. Nnothing was mentioned about the lights and things have been happily going along until about a month ago when we got a billl from Npower for approx £30.Our electricity supplier is British Gas, so I called Npower to find out what this bill is for, and got them to check the meter against ours and they said that its not for our meter, its then that I noticed in the passageway another meter in addition to the other 2 meters for 145, and saw that the cable from this meter only went to the lights in the passageway. And then found out that this is what the bill is refering to.

So Npower told us the the new owner had told them that we are responsible for that meter and gave them our details, and like I say the first thing we knew about this was about a month ago.

I phoned Npower and was on the phone for about an hour explaining that its not our meter, we dont and never have used those lights as we have our own lights for the passageway, Never even new of this meter, and we never even use the passageway except to read the meter, and the only people that use the passageway and that light are the tenents of 145, I told them we want our name and address removed from this account and the woman understood, could see the problem that the new owner of 145 was palming his bill off onto us and said she would sort it.

So yesterday we recieved another demand from Npower for even more money for this meter. Had a big bust up with the guy at Npower on the phone, as they said our name was on the bill and its our responsibility. Even though we have never contacted Npower previous to the first bill to tell them we take responsibility, even though up until the previous owner sold his house he was responsible for the bill and the named bill payer on the account, and he passed the new owners details onto Npower as the person responsible for the account, and we have never had any other contact from Npower, no contract or letter asking us if we are responsible for this meter.

Phoned Consumer advice and they said that this is a deemed contract, which I can understand if the previous owner of our property was the bill payer and it was in his name, but its not.

So my questions as consumer advice were pretty useless.

1) What rights have Npower got to take our neihbours word that the bill is ours and take our details and start demanding money from us, even with a paper trail that proves the the previous owner, and the new owner for a short time once he bought 145 was the named payer of the bill and account holder.

2) What protection do I have in the regulations to stop people passing on my details to suppliers and those suppliers just assuming those details are correct without contacting us to confirm those details and getting our explicit confirmation that we take responsibility for the account.

3) what information does an energy suplier have to provide for these deemed contracts to make them binding i.e. are there no cancellation rights they have to inform me about etc. I am sure I have statutory rights that must apply here that can challenge these deemed contracts.

4) any other info that may be of benefit I would appreciate.

Thanks all

Kev.

footyguy

kev100 wrote: »

Hi,

(I put this in another forum by mistake, so reposting in the energy forum)

We had a bill turn up from Npower with our name on it for a meter that we had no knowledge of.

We bought our house 18 months ago No.144 and the neigbour in No.145 had converted his house to 2 flats and its been like that for many years. When we took possession the neigbour mentioned that there were lights in the shared passageway (these are for the benefit of his tennents as one of the flats the only way in is through the passageway) and he asked us if we would contribute to the bill, we catagorically said no as we didnt have any need for them as we would install our own lights from our own supply that are switchable from inside our house. We have never turned on his light switch as the only reason we need to go into the passage is to read our gas and electricity meter.

So 12 months after we purchased our house the neighbour sold his house and the new owner kept the house as flats, did some minor uogrades, and upgraded the lights that his tennents use in the passageway, a clear intention for him to continue to use those lights. Nnothing was mentioned about the lights and things have been happily going along until about a month ago when we got a billl from Npower for approx £30.Our electricity supplier is British Gas, so I called Npower to find out what this bill is for, and got them to check the meter against ours and they said that its not for our meter, its then that I noticed in the passageway another meter in addition to the other 2 meters for 145, and saw that the cable from this meter only went to the lights in the passageway. And then found out that this is what the bill is refering to.

So Npower told us the the new owner had told them that we are responsible for that meter and gave them our details, and like I say the first thing we knew about this was about a month ago.

I phoned Npower and was on the phone for about an hour explaining that its not our meter, we dont and never have used those lights as we have our own lights for the passageway, Never even new of this meter, and we never even use the passageway except to read the meter, and the only people that use the passageway and that light are the tenents of 145, I told them we want our name and address removed from this account and the woman understood, could see the problem that the new owner of 145 was palming his bill off onto us and said she would sort it.

So yesterday we recieved another demand from Npower for even more money for this meter. Had a big bust up with the guy at Npower on the phone, as they said our name was on the bill and its our responsibility. Even though we have never contacted Npower previous to the first bill to tell them we take responsibility, even though up until the previous owner sold his house he was responsible for the bill and the named bill payer on the account, and he passed the new owners details onto Npower as the person responsible for the account, and we have never had any other contact from Npower, no contract or letter asking us if we are responsible for this meter.

Phoned Consumer advice and they said that this is a deemed contract, which I can understand if the previous owner of our property was the bill payer and it was in his name, but its not.

So my questions as consumer advice were pretty useless.

1) What rights have Npower got to take our neihbours word that the bill is ours and take our details and start demanding money from us, even with a paper trail that proves the the previous owner, and the new owner for a short time once he bought 145 was the named payer of the bill and account holder.

None whatsoever. Only you can set up an account in your name (although a supplier often asks the clsoing account holder who the new responsible person is so they know who to chase)

However as you are responsible for the property (as you have set up an account with another supplier for another meter at that property) then you are responsible for this supply also if relates to the same property ... and that seems to be the cux of the disagreement.

Did you get a full survey done, especially electrical, when you bought the property? That should have highlighted this extra meter, so maybe you could have a calim against the surveyor?

Otherwise speak to your solicitor - the seller maybe should have made you aware of the situation when you bought the property.

kev100 wrote: »

2) What protection do I have in the regulations to stop people passing on my details to suppliers and those suppliers just assuming those details are correct without contacting us to confirm those details and getting our explicit confirmation that we take responsibility for the account.

No protection against someone passing on your details - but see my previous response about suppliers setting up accounts

kev100 wrote: »

3) what information does an energy suplier have to provide for these deemed contracts to make them binding i.e. are there no cancellation rights they have to inform me about etc. I am sure I have statutory rights that must apply here that can challenge these deemed contracts.

Essentially that you are responsible for paying the bill (such as being supplied to your property) and that some energy was used.

kev100 wrote: »

4) any other info that may be of benefit I would appreciate.

Thanks all

Kev.

Seek independent legal advice - like from the solicitor you bought the property with.

Mrs_Arcanum

footyguy wrote: »

None whatsoever. Only you can set up an account in your name (although a supplier often asks the clsoing account holder who the new responsible person is so they know who to chase)

However as you are responsible for the property (as you have set up an account with another supplier for another meter at that property) then you are responsible for this supply also if relates to the same property ... and that seems to be the cux of the disagreement.

Did you get a full survey done, especially electrical, when you bought the property? That should have highlighted this extra meter, so maybe you could have a calim against the surveyor?

Otherwise speak to your solicitor - the seller maybe should have made you aware of the situation when you bought the property.


No protection against someone passing on your details - but see my previous response about suppliers setting up accounts


Essentially that you are responsible for paying the bill (such as being supplied to your property) and that some energy was used.


Seek independent legal advice - like from the solicitor you bought the property with.

If I read kev100's post correctly he does not use the lights connected to this particular meter, which is a communal supply for the flats at 145. Nothing whatsoever to do with no 144.

Would suggest he finds the name of the people using the supply or the freeholder/managing agents and gives this information to N-Power.

Try Land registry for the information. Only costs a few pounds & could save a fortune on legal fees.

SwanJon

Agree with much of the above.
A few other points.

kev100 wrote: »

I noticed in the passageway another meter in addition to the other 2 meters for 145,

Is the meter attached to 145 or your property? If attacehd to 145 it will support the case that it is a supply for that property.

If you are unable to persuade npower to remove your name from the account and open one for 145 I'd get the meter removed so no more charges can be run up. Then you are looking at reclaiming the cost from 145.
I'd also approach the tenants of 145 to mkae them aware of the situation, and what you'll need to do if no one takes reponsibility for the meter.

footyguy

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

If I read kev100's post correctly he does not use the lights connected to this particular meter, which is a communal supply for the flats at 145. Nothing whatsoever to do with no 144.

Would suggest he finds the name of the people using the supply or the freeholder/managing agents and gives this information to N-Power.

Try Land registry for the information. Only costs a few pounds & could save a fortune on legal fees.

I don't think it matters who used the supply, simply that the supply was used during the period the OP is/was responsible for the supplied property.

a deemed contract will occur where a customer moves into a new property and has not agreed contractual terms with a supplier who is supplying energy to that property

If it's a supply they don't want to use, they could presumably turn it off at the consumer unit. Better still would be to have the supply disconnected entiirely.

(But worth discussing the matter with the neighbour first )

Mrs_Arcanum

footyguy wrote: »

I don't think it matters who used the supply, simply that the supply was used during the period the OP is/was responsible for the supplied property.

If it's a supply they don't want to use, they could presumably turn it off at the consumer unit. Better still would be to have the supply disconnected entiirely.

(But worth discussing the matter with the neighbour first )

Why is the OP responsible for the neighbours bill just because N-Power have said so? Or simply because the new owners have told N-Power this? This has all come about because the NEW owners of the flats @ 145 have caused a NEW supply to be fitted for the passageway lights & N-Power have got hold of the OPs details (possibly based on historic information) and billed the wrong person.


Still find it very odd that someone is being billed for something they do not use or have any control over the use of. Which is what this seems to be.

footyguy

Mrs_Arcanum wrote: »

Why is the OP responsible for the neighbours bill just because N-Power have said so?

....

As I understand it, it is not the neighbours bill. The supplier is claiming it to be the OP's bill. This would be because the supply meter is registered to the OP's address (not necessarily by nPower, but by the central database)

If this is correct, the OP is responsible as they would be in a deemed contract for such supply.

Mrs_Arcanum

footyguy wrote: »

As I understand it, it is not the neighbours bill. The supplier is claiming it to be the OP's bill. This would be because the supply meter is registered to the OP's address (not necessarily by nPower, but by the central database)

If this is correct, the OP is responsible as they would be in a deemed contract for such supply.

This is a NEW supply put in by the NEW owners of the flats at 145 so nothing to do with the OP. The fact N-Power have the wrong names/address attached to the meter is the problem.

kev100_2

Thanks guys for replies

Just to clear up, the supply has always been paid for by the owners of 145 (previous owner and then passed onto the new owner last year, he then passed our details onto Npower and told them that we are responsible), and the bill always went to them, we in no way agreed to pay anything towards this bill or even had knowledge there was a seperate meter that supplied the electricty for the lights that the tenents in 145 use, its solely for their use and we have never so much as once switched that light on for any reason as we have our own light switch and lamp for the passageway, our lightswitch is mounted inside our house, the meter in question the lightswitch is mounted in the passageway on timed push switches on the wall of 145. Its also on a business account bill (obviously for the landlords benfit of 145). and we are private owners.

The meter is mounted on the wall of 145.

We are not responsible and have never been for the electricity going to 145, and this meter that is used by the tenents of 145 to light the passageway, in fact the only reason we need to go into the passageway is to read our own meter, which we do in the daytime anyway

Its not a new supple or meter, but one that has been used for the tenents of 145 for many years, and many years (20+) before we bought 144 18 months ago

Mrs_Arcanum

kev100 wrote: »

Thanks guys for replies

Just to clear up, the supply has always been paid for by the owners of 145 (previous owner and then passed onto the new owner last year, he then passed our details onto Npower and told them that we are responsible), and the bill always went to them, we in no way agreed to pay anything towards this bill or even had knowledge there was a seperate meter that supplied the electricty for the lights that the tenents in 145 use, its solely for their use and we have never so much as once switched that light on for any reason as we have our own light switch and lamp for the passageway, our lightswitch is mounted inside our house, the meter in question the lightswitch is mounted in the passageway on timed push switches on the wall of 145. Its also on a business account bill (obviously for the landlords benfit of 145). and we are private owners.

The meter is mounted on the wall of 145.

We are not responsible and have never been for the electricity going to 145, and this meter that is used by the tenents of 145 to light the passageway, in fact the only reason we need to go into the passageway is to read our own meter, which we do in the daytime anyway

Its not a new supple or meter, but one that has been used for the tenents of 145 for many years, and many years (20+) before we bought 144 18 months ago

Miss understood your previous post as you mentioned you found another meter which was just for the lights.

So the problem has only arisen since 145 has new owners.

lonestar1

What did the new owner say when you informed them of their mistake? I would simply inform npower that they have been given your details in error (no need to go into history) and if they cannot confirm with new owners thats its their meter recommend npower come out and remove it (or switch it out for prepayment one)

be sure to include meter serial number though in all correspondence