DR+ reply refers me to ParkingEye vs. Beavis&Wardley

euromike

Hello again, I'll briefly summarise what happened
(1) PCN was sent to car rental company alleging that passenger was dropped off on the infamous roundabout in Luton Airport, car rental company told me to wait for APCOA to contact me directly
(2) I waited for some formal communication from APCOA themselves, missed the appeal window
(3) next thing I hear, Debt Recovery Plus are involved and I'm ordered to pay £130. No communication from APCOA in the meantime, no "notice to keeper" was sent to me, etc. - basically, the only piece of paper I have is from DR+.

What I did
(1) complained to BPA
(2) replied to DR+ saying that "I deny the existence of any debt, I request you to contact the Creditor and refer the case to them", etc - standard wording recommended here.

DR+ now replied,

"the time to challenge the charge has now expired... PCN was correctly issued and is still payable... PCN was sent to the vehicle's registered address, ... raise the problem with your postal service", ordering me to pay £130 within 2 weeks and referring to the case ParkingEye vs Beavis&Wardley.

What are your recommendations for next steps?

I was thinking
(1) reply to DR+ saying that I thank them for the information but I do not wish to be contacted further
(2) wait?

enfield_freddy

1: I hope they also mentioned that an appeal was happening?


2: stopping , is not parking


3: is this relevant land? , a public road , or possably land that comes under airport bylaws


(1) reply to DR+ saying that I thank them for the information but I do not wish to be contacted further
(2) wait?


3: , this debt is declined , please refer it back to muppets unlimited , do not contact me again etc ,, etc

euromike

thank you freddy,

(1) yes they mentioned the appeal still going - I only pasted bits of their reply
(3) it is not relevant land, it's the roundabout smack in the middle of area that is subject to Luton Airport bylaws - I'm a new user so can't post the link but the case in question seems to be very similar to dozens similar ones described on the internet. The roundabout was not relevant land.


Sometimes people recommend that an appeal is still sent to APCOA, despite the fact that they say it's too late. Should I do it? I've drafted it already so might as well? Please see below what I'd be sending to APCOA

"
I am replying as the keeper of the vehicle.
I wish to challenge this notice and refer you to the consequences of Halsey v Milton Keynes General NHS Trust if you refuse to consider an application outside your normal deadline.

1. You have not followed the process required in Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“PoFA”). I have not been sent a “Notice to Keeper” nor any other correspondence from you directly, merely an email from Zipcar advising me that you will be contacting me in the future;
2. The area you indicated in your PCN is within the area covered by Luton Airport Bye-Laws, and as per PoFA, “relevant land” is defined as " land ...other than...any land on which the parking of a vehicle is subject to statutory control". Therefore, it is not “relevant land” and you have no right to issue “fines” on it;
3. There is no clear signposting of the “no drop-off / no pick-up” zone;
4. I did not enter into a contract with you.

If you wish to take this further, I require you to provide a contract between yourselves and the landowner which gives you the authority to impose parking charges on the land.
If you do not accept this challenge, I require the validation code to refer the matter to POPLA.
Additionally, I have been charged £15 in processing fees by Zipcar which I demand you to reimburse within 28 days. Please advise how you intend to reimburse (cheque or bank transfer). I intend to take this matter to Small Claims Court if you fail to do so, as well as publicise the unlawful practices of your company in order to draw the regulator’s and law enforcement agencies’ attention to them.
"

enfield_freddy

glad you understand the con ,


nice to see that APCOA are BPA ,


you might have seen that I have posted about the BPA today , there is a line in there statement , "We can however investigate evidence of a possible breach of any of the points raised in the Code of Practice." and in there second reply saying "You have not given the name of an operator. If the operator is one of our members please provide copies of any letters, documents, photos etc. you may have ion order for us to look into this matter"




so how about a nice email to [EMAIL="Info@britishparking.co.uk"]Info@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL] , with you info you have , and ask them to issue APCOA with 12 sanction points as per there code of practice ,


won,t do any good , however it will leave a paper trail that Mr Pickles might act on

euromike

BTW I already complained to BPA who, incidentally, also replied today. They want copies of all correspondence etc. So I'll provide that, in the meantime, should I appeal to APCOA as well?

enfield_freddy

I fear they spotted my posting complaining that they were !!!!!! on this forum and peppipoo this morning , they actually sent me a second email , asking for more info , even tho I had not replied to there first (2 hrs previous)


https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5198765




for me to receive a second email, so quickly , and you to receive a follow up , someone must be ruffling there feathers


"we are being watched"

Half_way

Additionally, I have been charged £15 in processing fees by Zipcar which I demand you to reimburse within 28 days. Please advise how you intend to reimburse (cheque or bank transfer). I intend to take this matter to Small Claims Court if you fail to do so

Your argument here is with Zipcar and not APCOA
what do the terms from Zipcar say ( exact wording )
Also you could add a section about claiming your costs back from the land owner and/or APCOA should a challenge at POPLA be successful.
do not for one moment think of being extravagant charge the true costs and not a penny more keep receipts and a time log to prove your point
Your costs with zipcar will have to be dealt with separately

enfield_freddy

but this can,t go to POPLA , as its not relevant land , and any decision (if taken) would be worthless


any company wanting to use POFA , must be a member of a trade "club" in this case the BPA ,


and they must be able to offer an alternate resolution scheme , because the land is non relevant , no resolution can be offered , therefore information has been given illegally by the DVLA in all cases involving this land

Half_way

If POPLA is still in play and they rule on the not relevant land issue then thats the end of the parking charge notice ( has happened before )

bazster

enfield_freddy wrote: »

but this can,t go to POPLA , as its not relevant land , and any decision (if taken) would be worthless

Of course it can go to PoPLA! Please try to understand that PoPLA and POFA 2012 Schedule 4 are entirely unrelated.

enfield_freddy wrote: »

any company wanting to use POFA , must be a member of a trade "club" in this case the BPA ,

Absolute nonsense, it says nothing of the kind in PoFA. Anyone claiming to be owed a parking charge can invoke keeper liability under PoFA regardless of what club they are or are not members of (but they might have difficulty finding out who the keeper is if they are not ATA members, although the DVLA will happily sell your details to landowners who are not ATA members).

enfield_freddy wrote: »

and they must be able to offer an alternate resolution scheme , because the land is non relevant , no resolution can be offered

Huh? Why not? All you can get from it being non-relevant land is that there is no keeper liability, what on earth does that have to do with the availability of ADR? Loads of Luton Airport cases have been adjudicated upon by PoPLA.

enfield_freddy wrote: »

therefore information has been given illegally by the DVLA in all cases involving this land

Quite likely the information has been given out illegally, but not for the reasons you are stating.

Please try to understand this. PoPLA exists for adjudicating any fake fines raised by BPA members. PoFA is the law of the land and has nothing to do with PoPLA.

bazster

euromike wrote: »

BTW I already complained to BPA who, incidentally, also replied today. They want copies of all correspondence etc. So I'll provide that, in the meantime, should I appeal to APCOA as well?

Just ignore APCOA and DRP unless they send you a PoPLA code.