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fuse confusion - is it safe to replace the face on a plug socket yourself?

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  • WobblyDog
    WobblyDog Posts: 512 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 100 Posts
    If possible I would try to buy a replacement socket that is exactly the same as the old one, so that existing wires don't need any modification to fit.

    As a DIYer, I'd also not start the job less than several hours before sunset (or when there's something I want to watch on TV), just in case the job turns out to be complicated and I have to keep the power turned off for longer than expected.

    All this talk of screw torque makes me wonder when we'll start seeing sockets with Wago-style lever connectors on the back rather than screw connectors. That would make the connections more reproduceable and less subject to human error.
  • zax47
    zax47 Posts: 1,263 Forumite
    edited 22 March 2015 at 5:11PM
    prowla wrote: »
    Torque wrench for a plug socket = baloney!

    Torque SCREWDRIVER, not wrench - tightens screws to prescribed tightness to avoid under/over tightening and over-stretching/stripping of threads - especially in softer brass screws like those in electrical fittings. I use one - but them I am an electrician. Tighten, fit, remove, check & re-tighten.

    Would never use choc block to extend cable behind a socket. Any screwed connection now needs to accessible without a tool for inspection and testing for tightness. Prescribed method is to replace cable or to use a proper crimped connection which can't loosen with time. Myself I would use Wagos (push-fit, not lever) where space in the back-box permits.

    Discussion about torque screwdrivers here;

    http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-tools-products/56142-adjustable-torque-screwdriver-set-recommendations.html
  • wallbash
    wallbash Posts: 17,775 Forumite
    I use one - but them I am an electrician. Tighten, fit, remove, check & re-tighten.
    And you would get full value of one, using most days.
    Us DIY'ers using it a couple of times a year OTT
    Use standard screwdriver and take your time.
    Its worked for me for past 40 years.
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,969 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    zax47 wrote: »
    Torque SCREWDRIVER, not wrench - tightens screws to prescribed tightness to avoid under/over tightening and over-stretching/stripping of threads - especially in softer brass screws like those in electrical fittings. I use one - but them I am an electrician. Tighten, fit, remove, check & re-tighten.

    Would never use choc block to extend cable behind a socket. Any screwed connection now needs to accessible without a tool for inspection and testing for tightness. Prescribed method is to replace cable or to use a proper crimped connection which can't loosen with time. Myself I would use Wagos (push-fit, not lever) where spare in the back-box permits.

    Discussion about torque screwdrivers here;

    http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/electrical-tools-products/56142-adjustable-torque-screwdriver-set-recommendations.html
    Do the manufacturers prescribe the tightness of the screws in their sockets?

    If not, then is there a 3rd party table of the precise values to be used for each product from each manufacturer?

    If neither of those, then is it just guesswork?
  • zax47
    zax47 Posts: 1,263 Forumite
    edited 22 March 2015 at 5:15PM
    prowla wrote: »
    Do the manufacturers prescribe the tightness of the screws in their sockets?

    a) Did I say sockets? b) did I say I always use one?
    c) Commercial/industrial product makers DO define required torque for safe connections - and manufacturers instructions/specifications even trump BS7671 as far as defining what we should do for best practice.
    If not, then is there a 3rd party table of the precise values to be used for each product from each manufacturer?
    See above.
    If neither of those, then is it just guesswork?
    Skill learned with time and experience.

    I used to work with an irritating pedantic know-it-all. After a smack in the gob from several of us on several occasions he decided to sod off and try to find a life ...:rotfl:

    http://blogs.virginmedia.com/files/7413/7483/1174/10_Mr_you_dont_wanna_do_it_like_that.jpg
  • jeallen01
    jeallen01 Posts: 192 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    zax47 wrote: »
    . Any screwed connection now needs to accessible without a tool for inspection and testing for tightness.
    So, based on that, you need to be able to access the terminal screws on the back of the socket face without a tool!!!! Not, I think, a good idea (and contrary to all the electrical safety standards I have worked with over the last 40 years!!)
  • jeallen01
    jeallen01 Posts: 192 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    edited 22 March 2015 at 6:37PM
    zax47 wrote: »
    ...or to use a proper crimped connection which can't loosen with time. Myself I would use Wagos (push-fit, not lever) where space in the back-box permits.


    OTOH, those methods of connection do seem very sensible - so can you give some part numbers for suitably insulated crimps and WAGO connectors that could be used (I have seen WAGO lever-lock connectors on their terminal blocks for PCB/PWB use, but they were quite large items, although not as standalone items for this particular sort of application)?
    BTW, I do have a reasonable crimping tool - but, again OTOH, most people will not!


    Edited:


    Did a bit of searching, and found that Screwfix do the push-fit WAGO connectors
    2-conducto:r : http://www.screwfix.com/p/2-way-push-wire-connector-773-series-pack-of-100/77102?kpid=77102&cm_mmc=Google-_-Product%20Listing%20Ads-_-Sales%20Tracking-_-sales%20tracking%20url&kpid=77102&cm_mmc=Google-_-Shopping%20-%20Electrical-_-Shopping%20-%20Electrical&gclid=CI-15pK_vMQCFeoJwwodHk8Axw
    4-conductor: http://www.screwfix.com/p/4-way-push-wire-connector-773-series-pack-of-100/27374


    I think I'll get some!
  • anotheruser
    anotheruser Posts: 3,485 Forumite
    Ninth Anniversary 1,000 Posts Name Dropper I've been Money Tipped!
    27col wrote: »
    The foreman, said "Do not believe anyone, including me(God) who tells you that the power is off".
    Never work on any circuit unless you have personally ensured that the power is, indeed, off.

    This is true on the railway.

    If someone puts a special sign on a train which basically says the train can't be moved, only that same person can remove it. Obviously other people can but they don't know if anyone is working under it, so it's disallowed.
  • jeallen01
    jeallen01 Posts: 192 Forumite
    Sixth Anniversary Combo Breaker
    This is true on the railway.

    If someone puts a special sign on a train which basically says the train can't be moved, only that same person can remove it. Obviously other people can but they don't know if anyone is working under it, so it's disallowed.
    That's very true, but unfortunately there have been a number of serious/fatal accidents in industry, especially w.r.t. large machines, where Person No 2 did not realise that Person No 1 was working somewhere else on the machine that was not visible to him and so turned the power on. That's why keyed safety interlock systems were introduced, and Person No 1 has to take the only key with him so that Person No 2 CANNOT turn the power on. However, also unfortunately, not every company that should have installed such systems has actually done so, and so accidents do still happen from time to time.
  • prowla
    prowla Posts: 13,969 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    zax47 wrote: »
    a) Did I say sockets? b) did I say I always use one?
    c) Commercial/industrial product makers DO define required torque for safe connections - and manufacturers instructions/specifications even trump BS7671 as far as defining what we should do for best practice.
    Well,
    (a) The thread is about re-wiring a socket, and you said "electrical fittings"; of course, if you weren't talking about the thread topic, then perhaps it's for another thread.
    (b) You said "I use one - but them I am an electrician."; you may or may not use it always, or not, but I never said you did or didn't.
    (c) It's irrelevant to this thread whether commercial/industrial makers define torques, as this thread is about a 13A home socket for a dishwasher.
    zax47 wrote: »
    See above.
    As above, that's not an answer; the context of the thread is changing a home double socket for a dishwasher, not a commercial/industrial installation.
    zax47 wrote: »
    Skill learned with time and experience.
    So would your skills and experience tell you how tight to do the screws in a 13A home socket using a plain screwdriver, or would you need to use a torque screwdriver?
    zax47 wrote: »
    I used to work with an irritating pedantic know-it-all. After a smack in the gob from several of us on several occasions he decided to sod off and try to find a life ...:rotfl:

    http://blogs.virginmedia.com/files/7413/7483/1174/10_Mr_you_dont_wanna_do_it_like_that.jpg
    I know; it can be a bit irksome when someone comes along and does the big "I am" and tries to demonstrate how clever they are by touting their "skills & experience" and introducing spurious and irrelevant points to try and prove how clever they are.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6QgHUJIQ5Q&list=RDy6QgHUJIQ5Q
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