Capitalism vs Socialism

antrobus

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

You must remember that France is a 'Communist' country formally [since it is organised into communes]. Plus Allande makes Miliband look like Margaret Thatcher.....

Do you mean Hollande?

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

..But my biggest surprise is that the baker appears to believe he must follow the rules. Most French simply don't bother....

I believe that is what the baker in question was doing, not bothering to follow the rules. But is now reportedly "outraged" that the authrorities are enforcing the rules.

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

...So we can predict our plight should Miliband form a majority government, we can see him abolishing zero hour contracts, rigorously enforce (and strengthen) European law. Avoid any referendum or renegotiation on Europe, tax businesses a lot more, raise minimum wage abruptly, thereby getting unemployment up to 5 million or so.

Probably.:)

CLAPTON

zagubov wrote: »

The only redeeming feature of Stalinism AFAIK was that he spotted that Hitler was a far bigger thug really early, and that among his (Stalin's) endless weaknesses was that he couldn't convince Churchill that Hitler should be stopped before he started a war which could turn out to be a bit of a big one.:(

one could say this was a classic socialist rewriting of history.

antrobus

CLAPTON wrote: »

one could say this was a classic socialist rewriting of history.

Mass killings under Communist regimes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

padington

War involving the USA ...

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

Still have a finger in almost all the pie's too. In 1992 I befriended the U.S. special forces In Thailand. After many nights out and lots of refusals to tell me just about anything, they let me know the one thing they could get away with sharing - in 1992 there were 23 wars or skirmish's around the world. The USA was officially
or unofficially militarily involved in 21 of them.

Optimist

zagubov wrote: »

The only redeeming feature of Stalinism AFAIK was that he spotted that Hitler was a far bigger thug really early, and that among his (Stalin's) endless weaknesses was that he couldn't convince Churchill that Hitler should be stopped before he started a war which could turn out to be a bit of a big one.:(

I guess that is why he entered into a non aggression pact with Hitler. A part of which pact divided up Poland and the Baltic states and allowed the Soviets to massacre, torture and deport to Siberia many of Stalins potential opponents . The Katlyn forest massacre perhaps the most well known.

Loughton_Monkey

antrobus wrote: »

Do you mean Hollande?

Probably.

The correct names of Socialists is not my strong subject. Milliband? Miliband? Who knows? Who cares? Those who wish to impair all initiatives to create wealth in favour of spreading a declining wealth around is a complete idiot.

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery..”

Winston Churchill

N1AK

antrobus wrote: »

I agree. Communism vs capitalism has nothing to do with Somalia's current predicament.

Odd therefore, that you should even mention it, given the subject of this thread.:rotfl:

I thought this thread was about picking national pairings that had nothing to do with communism/capitalism then arguing that capitalism/communism was what put them where they are

antrobus

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

Probably.

The correct names of Socialists is not my strong subject....

We all have our weaknesses.:)

Me, I just check things on Google. Thus I know that Hollande is the French PM, and that Allande is a French lingerie brand.

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

... Milliband? Miliband? Who knows? Who cares? ...

Two kitchens is a One L Miliband. I do not know whether there are any Two L Milibands.

Loughton_Monkey wrote: »

... Those who wish to impair all initiatives to create wealth in favour of spreading a declining wealth around is a complete idiot.

62% of the British public agree with you.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/sixtytwo-percent-of-voters-dislike-ed-miliband-poll-shows-10110770.html

antrobus

N1AK wrote: »

I thought this thread was about picking national pairings that had nothing to do with communism/capitalism then arguing that capitalism/communism was what put them where they are

It is obviously the OP's contention that the national pairings of North and South Korea, and their relative economic performance since the conclusion of the Korean War in 1953 do indeed have something to with one being communist and the other capitalist.

I would have to say that there is a certain logic to that argument.

Do you have any other explanations as to why per capita GDP in South Korea is about 20 times that of North Korea?

N1AK

Generali wrote: »

As antrobus says, Socialism inevitably leads to dictatorship. Even Marx believed that Totalitarianism was an inevitable part of Socialism. It's possibly the only thing Marx and Hayek agree on.

IIRC Marx didn't think that dictatorship was inevitable, but it's been years since I've studied and I'll happily accept evidence I'm wrong.

I find Marx's thinking very stimulating, but struggle to draw clear guidance. He said "Democracy's the road to Socialism", but he also said "Peace means there's no opposition to Socialism" which doesn't sound like a very lively democracy.

If you were a worker in the UK during Karl Marx's time then you were disenfranchised. It was only during the early 19th Century that we got rid of the rotten boroughs, and even with the reforms of the time 6 out of 7 MEN weren't allowed to vote.

You'd have no say over the tax you had to pay, the laws you had to obey etc. You probably lived in property provided by an employer, and it was common for them to refuse to hire people who worked for other employers, so you had no real choice on your wage or job.

When the world looks like that an authoritarian state that will overthrow the domineering elite could hardly be worse for those at the bottom of the heap.