Capitalism vs Socialism

CLAPTON

globalds wrote: »

A really interesting and very illuminating view of how a totalitarian state can end up sacrificing well being and quality for the bottom line ..The very thing those socialists scream capitalism is guilty of is a documentary called under the dome.
A link to an article on it is here: ( There is a link to the video with subtitles on the page)
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2015/mar/09/chinese-pollution-documentary-under-the-dome-taken-offline-government

As an afterthought it uses London in the 50's as an example of how bad things are now in some Chinese cities ..So maybe Capitalism is as bad.

when you say capitalism is as bad , do you mean that the UK suppressed the figures and any public discussion of pollution in the 1950s

BobQ

How is the GDP of NK calculated?

Do they use the same methodology as SK?

Jason74

BobQ wrote: »

How is the GDP of NK calculated?

Do they use the same methodology as SK?

Given the gap in GDP, I think we can safely say that the methodologies used don't really matter that much

globalds

CLAPTON wrote: »

when you say capitalism is as bad , do you mean that the UK suppressed the figures and any public discussion of pollution in the 1950s

No ,I was on about the end result.

CLAPTON

globalds wrote: »

No ,I was on about the end result.

as in the UK is at least 70 years ahead of china?

Loughton_Monkey

padington wrote: »

......I spent a brilliant evening toasting 'F*ck Kim John-un' with two southern Koreans. Seems to be the first time they ever combined politics with alcohol, the first few times was spoke very meekly, I asked why so quiet ? Some things should be said loudly after all. They said 'scared of nuclear attack'. After 2pm however they got the hang of things nicely, hopefully a new tradition to take home......

Whilst I can believe the 'thrust' of what you said, my pedantry dissallows me to believe the detail of it.

For those of us who have lived in Korea, and learned a bit of their language, we understand fully that their alphabet (hangul) prevents them saying what you quoted. In an alphabet of only 24 letters, of which only 14 are consonants (we have 21), they have no letter for "F". The nearest is something like "P" or "B".

South Koreans absoluetly love foreigners [their government as a body hates them] with the passionate and deep exception of Americans. They dislike Japanese also (up to a point) and in my experience cannot also get on with Indians.

More than once, I have been in the viscinity of the US Embassy in Seoul. Quite often there is a demonstration outside. It is an experience, second to none, to witness this and hear the common strains of "Puck Off". "Puck Off". Puck Off". They are physically unable of pronouncing any word beginning with "F". Even (I learn) after a Canadian or foreign secondary education.

South Korea has in the order of 30,000 US troops. Many of whom, strangely, are too 'scared' to venture out from their barracks. Their shops and facilities inside make it totally self sufficient.

The reasons for their passionate hatred of Americans is based upon....

1. The fact that whilst their job is to help defend the North/South border, you can almost count with one hand the number of troops actually on or near the border. They cower in their barracks (some south of Seoul) and do very little in military terms other than be a 'deterrent'.
2. When they do venture out, the relative frequency with which Korean girls get raped, and taxi drivers get beaten up has always been a matter of concern. But Americans are 'immune' from Korean law. Any such acts are 'dealt with' behind the barrack gates.
3. It is a function of the outdated "training" that US troops get before going anywhere abroad that it dates back to the 19th century. It seems they are 'trained' that all foreigners are (a) stupid, (b) beligerant, (c) servile, and there to be harangued, maltreated, and ordered about by foreigners. In fact, Koreans are amongst the nicest, most educated, hard working and pleasant people in the world. But the amount of sh[t they have to put up with from these Americans is embarrasing.

I have a natural distaste for any form of car sticker, but in my 4 years there, I reluctantly put on a Union Flag sticker for fear of being thought of as American.

A further incident I despised when I was there was the killing of two schoolgirls. They were run over, in a rural area, by an American Armoured vehicle. It maybe could have been deemed an "accident" but the physical location indicated that the driver(s) of the vehicle had been negligent in the extreme.

In view of the seriousness of the incident, the subsequent "trial" of the driver and navigator (held behind barrack doors by Americans) was reported in the press. The Americans deliberately held a trial each. Some distance apart. The driver came first, and was fully cleared of any blame, since he had convinced the court beyond any shadow of doubt that the navigator was singly at fault.

Some while later, the navigator was tried, and was soon fully acquitted based upon his evidence that the driver had, in fact, been 100% culpable. Both individuals were then sent back to USA. No apology or compensation for the 'accident' was forthcoming.

antrobus

BobQ wrote: »

How is the GDP of NK calculated?

Do they use the same methodology as SK?

I doubt very much that the GDP of NK is 'calculated' in any meaningful way. It's not the sort of country that publishes any kind of data about itself. I would guess that whatever GDP figures that are available are estimated by the good old CIA as per their Factbook.

I don't think it matters what kind of methodology is used to estimate the GDP of a nation that systematically tortures and kills its own people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26223180

N1AK

Generali wrote: »

South Korea has GDP of $1,305,000,000,000, North Korea's is $12,380,000,000 despite South Korea having only double the population of her northern neighbour.

Great, perhaps you can now explain why capitalism has made Somalia a better country than Sweden? At least that would actually be insightful if you can manage it

Generali

N1AK wrote: »

Great, perhaps you can now explain why capitalism has made Somalia a better country than Sweden? At least that would actually be insightful if you can manage it

People like to claim that Somalia is a capitalist state. It isn't. It's collapsed into anarchy and so is missing most of the basics of a capitalist state such as property rights.

I'm sure you can find umpteen links to nutters that claim all sorts about Somalia.

With North and South Korea we had two countries in similar economic situations a few decades ago that then followed divergent policies. We can see the results today: mass starvation and an absence of much that we would recognise as an economy at all in the north with a reasonably affluent economy in the south.

N1AK

Generali wrote: »

People like to claim that Somalia is a capitalist state. It isn't. It's collapsed into anarchy and so is missing most of the basics of a capitalist state such as property rights.

Somalia is more capitalist than North Korea is communist.

I'll stick to defining capitalist like most of the world does:

Capitalism is an economic system in which trade, industries, and the means of production are largely or entirely privately owned and operated for profit.

an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

You can keep making up your own definition if you like, but you may have some trouble getting it accepted.