Land registry

Gill420

My father has just died and I'm trying to sort out probate, etc. on behalf of my mother.

She is convinced that they owned their house as joint tenants, but the only paperwork I can find (from their original purchase in 1945!) has only my father's name on it.

The house is not registered at the Land Registry, so am I right in assuming that no one would be able to prove how the house was owned (joint tenants or tenants in common), and that I can just go ahead and register the house in my mother's name? She is the sole beneficiary of my fathers will.

Thanks for any advice.

g6jns_2

Gill420 wrote: »

My father has just died and I'm trying to sort out probate, etc. on behalf of my mother.

She is convinced that they owned their house as joint tenants, but the only paperwork I can find (from their original purchase in 1945!) has only my father's name on it.

The house is not registered at the Land Registry, so am I right in assuming that no one would be able to prove how the house was owned (joint tenants or tenants in common), and that I can just go ahead and register the house in my mother's name? She is the sole beneficiary of my fathers will.

Thanks for any advice.

What do the deeds say? I think the Land Registry need full details for first time registration. It may not be a DIY job. You would be wisest to ask a solicitor.

SeniorSam

Do not concern yourself that the property is not registered in the Land Registry, as there are many property owners that simply have all the Deeds in their possession, which should show who owns it.

Do you know where the Deeds are?

Did your father have a Will and if so, who are the Executors named in that Will?

The more information you can give to the forum, the more help you may obtain, which can help you.

Sam

SevenOfNine

I did this for my Mother in 2008. Used form FR1 - Application for First Registration & form DL - List of Documents both from the Land Registry website. Not sure if the forms have changed since then.

Probably easier if (like us) you wait until after Probate. It cost £110 for a house (value at first registration in 2008) £160,000 (that was just our best guess, no evidence required).

The form DL just requires enough skill to assemble ALL paperwork you can find in a neat date order, number it then cross reference onto the DL form. Conveyancing paperwork, deeds, mortgage deeds & final statement, my Dad's death certificate & probate paperwork. I had 18 documents altogether, was able to actually go back to when the landowner first sold the land to our local council!

There was an element of 'original' & 'certified copy' requirement - if you don't have certified copies then they may retain the originals, which we weren't happy about but as luck had it we pretty much had certified copies of everything necessary so got all our original things back.

We did go to the Leicester office to drop it off/collect it, but I can't recall why we did that, I think we just chose to because we live only about an hour away.

Don't pay a solicitor to do this for you, it was SIMPLE. The Land Registry staff were very helpful.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-application-registration-fr1
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/documents-list-dl

g6jns_2

SevenOfNine wrote: »

I did this for my Mother in 2008. Used form FR1 - Application for First Registration & form DL - List of Documents both from the Land Registry website. Not sure if the forms have changed since then.

Probably easier if (like us) you wait until after Probate. It cost £110 for a house (value at first registration in 2008) £160,000 (that was just our best guess, no evidence required).

The form DL just requires enough skill to assemble ALL paperwork you can find in a neat date order, number it then cross reference onto the DL form. Conveyancing paperwork, deeds, mortgage deeds & final statement, my Dad's death certificate & probate paperwork. I had 18 documents altogether, was able to actually go back to when the landowner first sold the land to our local council!

There was an element of 'original' & 'certified copy' requirement - if you don't have certified copies then they may retain the originals, which we weren't happy about but as luck had it we pretty much had certified copies of everything necessary so got all our original things back.

We did go to the Leicester office to drop it off/collect it, but I can't recall why we did that, I think we just chose to because we live only about an hour away.

Don't pay a solicitor to do this for you, it was SIMPLE. The Land Registry staff were very helpful.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/first-application-registration-fr1
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/documents-list-dl

Just a note of caution for the OP. Unless you are 100% confident you know what you are doing get paid for professional advice. Just because one on the board person found it easy does not mean there are no pitfalls for other people. It is crucial that you can provide good proof of title to thr Land Registry.

Crabapple

OP you need to locate all the original deeds as mentioned by other posters. Chances are given the timeframe that it was purchased in just your dad's name, but the deeds will prove that. There might be some later document transferring it into joint names for example.

You won't be able to transfer the house until you have a Grant of Probate and after that an application for First Registration and transfer into your mother's name can be made.

I would also urge some caution with a DIY job here. You need to be able to check the deeds and identify exactly which ones are needed, including older documents that might include restrictions or rights over the land that still exist. There is surprisingly little unregistered land still around and even a lot of lawyers working in property don't deal with First Registrations very often.

SevenOfNine

Though it's worth taking on board the comments regarding DiY, TBH this could not have been simpler. Common sense was all that was required (which is just as well for me). It's another of those tasks which may SEEM daunting, but to be frank it didn't even seem that daunting & definitely wasn't.

The Land Registry themselves were very helpful, they will identify which (& if you have all appropriate) documents are necessary! If you don't have certain things then yes, you may well need to pay for professional help given that 'who knows' where they may be located after so many years since purchase, or what can be done about it.

Don't panic into thinking you can't do this yourself. Take stock of what documents your Mother has (the deeds being of primary importance obviously) & speak to the Land Registry.

TBH I sent much more than necessary only because my Mother is a paper hoarder & I'm practically OCD organised. I even had a load of conveyance stuff between the original landowner & our local council dated 1952 which I sent regardless of the need to.

Wait for probate, then good luck with it.

Land_Registry

As others state the original deeds/documents will be crucial here. You refer to the 'paperwork' from 1945 so if you have the Conveyance by the then owner to your father then this is likely, based on the other details posted, to be the starting point for you.

For many years in Britain it was common for land/property to be vested in a sole beneficial owner. Today, because of changes in social conditions and in particular the alteration in the status of women, co-ownership has overtaken sole ownership of domestic property.

That is not to say that your parents did not change to joint owners but if they did then you would perhaps expect that deed to be with the others.

You will definitely need probate to now transfer the property to your Mother and the transfer will trigger the need to register for the first time as per the guidance already linked to.

Once probate is obtained the executor, presumably you, can then assent the property to your Mother as the beneficiary. As posted this can be quite straightforward but we always recommend seeking legal advice. Whilst form-filling can be quite simple understanding the legal implications is also important. Considering what might happen in the future is also often helpful as there may be alternatives to transferring the property into your Mother's sole name now.

SevenOfNine

Land_Registry_representative wrote: »

As posted this can be quite straightforward but we always recommend seeking legal advice. Whilst form-filling can be quite simple understanding the legal implications is also important. Considering what might happen in the future is also often helpful as there may be alternatives to transferring the property into your Mother's sole name now.

.........I said they were helpful :beer:

Though to be honest, I'd link the "legal advice & understanding legal implications" in with the "alternatives to transferring the property into your Mother's sole name now", rather than there being any 'unknown' legal implications should the OP choose the DiY route for transferring the property directly to Mother.

Good comments from the rep (trust me to argue my case for DiY though) :A

Gill420

Thanks to all for your very helpful replies.

I haven't found anything in my father's papers to show that the property was put into joint names, I only have my mother's word for it.

I was going to fill in the probate form as though they were joint tenants, but since no one has any proof of that I guess I'd better assume that the house was Dad's property. Luckily, as everything is passing to my mother, it shouldn't mean there will be IHT to pay.

g6jns_2

Sorry to labour the point but just because you found it simple and had all the paperwork does not mean the OP has. In fact it sounds as if the OP may well not have it all. It really is crucial that the LR are presented with good title. To risk not doing so could easily be storing up trouble for the future. In fact the OP might then need to sort out problems when her mother dies. For the sake of a few hundred pounds it is insurance against things going wrong. With all due respect to the OP she may not be nearly as clued up as you were.