Ceiling Repair – Second Opinion Anyone?

bpk101

I’m in the middle of renovating a 2 bed Victorian terrace. The ceiling in our second bedroom was bowing badly, apparently caused by water damage / damp to the loft joists (stains of which are visible on the original plasterboard in the photos linked below)… the roof has now been repaired and damp solved.

I asked my builder to level the ceiling for cosmetic reasons, they suggested a new suspended ceiling but didn't prepare me for losing almost 20cm in ceiling height! I’ve only just come to realise this since seeing the framework that has been put up ready for the new plasterboard:

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According to the builder that’s the only way to tackle the problem if we want a level ceiling and any framework they put up to hold the new plasterboard will need to have at least 5cm distance between old and new plasterboard in case of further movement from above. Is this right??

Given the difference between highest and lowest point of the original bowed plasterboard is 9cm, with the additional 5cm space that’s a minimum of 14cm we’re going to lose from our ceiling height!

We simply can’t afford to have the whole loft joist system replaced.

The only other option we’ve been given is to abandon the levelling and skim over the old plasterboard for a smooth – but still bowed – ceiling finish.

Thoughts anyone? Need to arrive at a course if action today… and it needs to be SAFE, little people will be in that room one day in the not too distant future.

Thanks

Doozergirl

Of course it's not the only way. He's suggesting the cheap and easy ways of bodging it because you're saying you can't afford to do it properly.

The plaster should come off the ceilings. With the bowing and previous water damage, it's likely to be a bit of a liability in terms of potential to fall down. It even looks to be still wet from here!

If the joists are bowed, then they can usually be 'packed' to be straightened out before being reboarded and skimmed, although 9cm sounds an awful lot. Have the joists been checked for rot? They can be checked from above, but stripping the plaster would be better again. They could be replaced rather than packed depending on their condition and whether they run over any other rooms.

There is not a chance that we would do what your guy is doing. If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing correctly. It will make a mess aess amd it will cost more, but it is future proof and safe. This is your one chance to do it properly without the whole room needing redoing again.

esmerelda98

Can I ask Doozergirl and bpk101, what sort of costs would I be looking at to remove and replace a rotten floor in this kind of scenario? Thanks

martinsurrey

take the plaster board off, if the wood is solid but bowed (and you cant replace for some reason, fix 2X1's or 3X1's to the side of them so you have a straight line created by the new wood.

board to the new wood.

skim

problem solved (and cheap)

But its a victorian house, its not meant to be straight and new. As long as its stable and the damp problem has been solved a bowed ceiling just adds charm and authenticity.

gingernut352000

If you do go this route ensure ceiling light is moved correctly to the new lower ceiling. Or you could be in for issues in the future

Ike other poster iwould want to be 100% sure everything is dry and sound if you do go this route.

bpk101

Is it posible the old lath and plaster is bowing and not the joists themselves??

Plasterer

Hi
Those pictures you've shown are all wrong that is not a metal frame ceiling what you have there is for building partition walls. The metal frame systems are different as you use what is known as top hat that clips to a sturdy frame. Give me ten minutes I'll find a photo.
Also why can't the builder rip out the bow in the ceiling reboard correctly and skim.

bpk101

I've just had my builder check the joists and he says:

"There's no rot ... only issue with them is they are too thin, joists are only 70mm deep (instead of 170mm). The joists themselves are bowed and weak, moving under pressure when applied from above in the loft".

The reason we didn't originally opt for joist strengthening or new joists completely was the fact we are doing a loft conversion in a couple of years so didn't want to invest heavily in new joists that (we were told) wouldn't be needed once the loft extension floor joists are suspended above them on a much more rigid structure.

The new ceiling work in that second bedroom was for cometic purposes only.

Where do i go now with this?

Doozergirl

Make do with what you have or do the joists now.

Things need to be done in a certain order. Even the suspended ceiling seems like a flight of fancy for 'cosmetic purposes'.

pendragon_arther

Plasterer wrote: »

Hi
Those pictures you've shown are all wrong that is not a metal frame ceiling what you have there is for building partition walls. The metal frame systems are different as you use what is known as top hat that clips to a sturdy frame. Give me ten minutes I'll find a photo.
Also why can't the builder rip out the bow in the ceiling reboard correctly and skim.

This is what I was wondering. We had water damage on our kirchen ceiling and the builder cut out bad section, put in plasrer board and skimmed to level out.

bpk101

Okay… so I chatted further with my builder this morning. He is actually recommending we tackle this issue properly and don’t simply opt for a quick skim over or the dropped ceiling route (which I had him start without realising the excessive loss of height).

The issues we have are the current loft joists are only 70mm thick, they are bowed and weak bending easily under foot … as a result our loft is not really safe for walking on or storage and one of the ceilings (second bedroom) is sagging badly.

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Another factor for consideration is we would like a dorma loft extension adding a couple of years down the line, so any work that is or isn’t carried out now will have certain implications.

His recommended route is now the following:

Cross batten the existing joists with timber battens approx 150–170mm thick, these battens will be fixed to the top of our current joists across the whole loft space. A 250x50 timber cross beam frame (as far as I understood) will be screwed into the party walls for the cross battens to sit on, as opposed to the battens actually going into the party wall brick work (which will require party wall agreements).

The battens will then be boarded to create a new loft floor… which he is suggesting will be of good enough quality to serve as our dorma loft conversion floor in the future, would this be correct?? So in effect we’re laying the dorma loft conversion flooring now.

Can I be sure that any future loft conversion company will be satisfied with this floor he creates and will it be fit for purpose?

The original bowed joists will then be screwed up and into the cross battens, relieving as much of the bowing as possible (but not all).

Our second bedroom ceiling is currently plyboard with plaster (not lath and plaster) … he will remove the old plaster but use the plyboard and replaster onto it and the now secure joists, skim and finish.

Thoughts??