Help me with £100 fine! INJUSTICE!

zygurat789

Johnny111 wrote: »

Thanks. But, there is living in some sort of scam dictatorship and living in what is supposed to be a reasonable country which is another debate all together. I believe in right and wrong.

It's not the fact that I knew that I had no income, it's the fact that I wasn't declared self-employed anymore, and as far as I was told by the HMRC themselves, it was done, finished, tax return submitted for previous tax year, nothing more to do. I despise a world in which we live where you have to officially inform HMRC you are not working and no longer self-employed, therefore free of paying tax in which they accept yet they can still covertly ask for a tax return where you again tell them you are not working, then they fine you £100 without warning. It's ridiculous.

Whether you were self em,ployed or not has absolutely nothing to do with filing a tax return.
Where did HMRC tell you that.
Where is this world (dimensio?) that you have to inform HMRC that you are not working etc. All you had to do was complete a tax return they sent you.
You also seem to be very confused about self employment and tax returns.

Johnny111

zygurat789 wrote: »

Whether you were self em,ployed or not has absolutely nothing to do with filing a tax return.
Where did HMRC tell you that.
Where is this world (dimensio?) that you have to inform HMRC that you are not working etc. All you had to do was complete a tax return they sent you.
You also seem to be very confused about self employment and tax returns.

Erm....because I had previously been employed via the PAYE system and I've never had to file a tax return. I believe as I was invoicing and being paid directly, as HMRC would have no record of what I was earning, I would need to file a tax return to declare how much I was paid so the subsequent tax could then be worked out?

I believe they have a whole page dedicated to informing them you are ceasing trading ala -https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/CeaseTrading

"If you work for yourself, you will pay tax on your taxable profits under the Self Assessment tax return scheme"

I guess that's the point of the self assessment tax return scheme. I remember the years when I had finished college and not working and I had to file all of those tax returns...NOT!

What if I cease self-employment?

You should tell HMRC when you have ceased self-employment, otherwise they will just assume your self-employment is ongoing and will continue to issue you tax returns to complete and send you demands for Class 2 NIC’s. You will need to fill in a tax return for the year your self-employment ends. The date that you stopped being self-employed should be shown on the tax return.
shown on the tax return.

From the HMRC website -

What you need to do if you’re no longer
self-employed. If you're no longer self-employed or you are leaving a partnership, you need to .tell us. You still need to complete your tax return and the supplementary self-employment pages for the tax year in which your self-employment ended

WHICH I DID!

Johnny111

TheCyclingProgrammer wrote: »

Unfortunately once you've received a notice to file, you're obliged to file one unless you a) ask HMRC to cancel this and b) have written confirmation that you no longer need to file a return.

You appear to have done A but do not have B therefore your return was not filed on time and the penalty will stand. I'm afraid you'll just have to chalk this up to experience. It's not unusual for HMRC to keep requesting returns for years after ceasing self employment.

The fact you told them you had stopped trading is irrelevant. Your self employment status and self assessment records are two distinct things.

Spot on. Thanks for the reply. Yep, your right I did (A) but I guess I just trusted the guy on the phone. It wasn't a case of not wanting to do it, it literally took me 30 seconds earlier as there was nothing to detail apart from lots of "no" selections and "£0's" being typed, it was the fact that I was told not to and to ignore the letter by the phone agent, in which I did, completely brushed it aside as being dealt with, until I received this fine today.

Spidernick

You should have received a reminder around the end of December, as HMRC seems to like to send these as a Christmas present!

You can try and appeal, but I doubt you'll be successful. You may just want to pay up and put it down to experience. Be glad you have now filed: if you'd have gone away for a year in early February oblivious to it all you would have come back to penalties totalling £1,600 (plus interest)! Pernicious, I know, but all sorts of fines for non-compliance (from speeding to tax compliance) are seen as 'easy pickings' in this age of austerity.

PETIE

Johnny111 wrote: »

Spot on. Thanks for the reply. Yep, your right I did (A) but I guess I just trusted the guy on the phone. It wasn't a case of not wanting to do it, it literally took me 30 seconds earlier as there was nothing to detail apart from lots of "no" selections and "£0's" being typed, it was the fact that I was told not to and to ignore the letter by the phone agent, in which I did, completely brushed it aside as being dealt with, until I received this fine today.

Complete a subject access request to get a copy of the call, appeal the £100 fine
https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR

Johnny111

This is the sort of information that someone would read and think that a tax return wouldn't be needed. I guess an extra part to that paragraph would read "but don't take the HMRC member of staff's word for it, make sure you get written documentation"

If you can answer "no" to ALL the following questions, call the self-assessment helpline on 0845 900 0444 and request to be removed from the regime:

• Do you, or your partner, receive child benefit and have an individual "adjusted net income" of over £50,000?

• Are you self-employed or in a partnership?

• Are you a company director, a minister of religion or a Lloyd's "name"? (You may be OK if you're a director of a non-profit organisation such as a charity, and you don't receive any payments or benefits).

• Is your annual income £100,000 or more?

• Do you make more than £2,500 a year from renting out a property? The official HMRC wording is that you'll need to fill in a tax return if the income you receive from property is more than £10,000 before deducting allowable expenses, or more than £2,500 after deducting allowable expenses (allowable expenses are things such as letting agent fees, building and contents insurance, utility bills and repairs). .

• Do you enjoy an income from your investments and savings of £10,000 or more a year? (Strictly speaking, it's £10,000 or more from taxed savings and investments, or £2,500 or more from untaxed savings and investments).

• Do you get income from overseas?

• Are you an employee claiming more than £2,500 in expenses or professional subscriptions?

• Have you sold/given away an asset such as a holiday home, and therefore have capital gains tax to pay, or are you receiving an income on which tax is still due - for example, from the estate of a deceased relative or friend?

• Are you 65-plus and receive a reduced age-related allowance, and have an income above £25,400 for the current tax year, and your tax affairs aren't that straightforward?

• Are you a trustee?

Johnny111

Spidernick wrote: »

You should have received a reminder around the end of December, as HMRC seems to like to send these as a Christmas present!

You can try and appeal, but I doubt you'll be successful. You may just want to pay up and put it down to experience. Be glad you have now filed: if you'd have gone away for a year in early February oblivious to it all you would have come back to penalties totalling £1,600 (plus interest)! Pernicious, I know, but all sorts of fines for non-compliance (from speeding to tax compliance) are seen as 'easy pickings' in this age of austerity.

I'll try and appeal. It's worth a try. It's just £100 seems such a large amount for such an scenario. I believe in the past if you had nothing to pay, it didn't matter how later you sent it off.

Johnny111

PETIE wrote: »

Complete a subject access request to get a copy of the call, appeal the £100 fine
https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR

Worth a try. There isn't a box to tick for phone calls, but I'll write it in the other box. Thanks.

TheCyclingProgrammer

You certainly can ring them to request your self assessment record be closed and if you can obtain proof you did this you might have a case. But always best to get this sort of thing in writing.

Out of interest, when you submitted the return, did you make sure you included all of your income, including any employment income?

Johnny111

I've submitted an FOI request to try and get a transcript of the call so I'll have to see.

As it stands I have no employment income to declare for the past tax year. Been chasing my dreams, travelling and heading back out next month but yeah nothing to declare what so ever.