CycleCraft - a discussion...

tight_scotsman

brat wrote: »

I don't think you'll be back TS, you're way out of your depth here...

...but I am interested to know what you would do if a cyclist was taking the lane and holding you back for a little while believing his safety was more important than your progress, especially if you believed his actions were overcautious.

Out of my depth ? Now we are being silly. It amazes me how some men in tights seem to think that if you don't prance around on a bike your opinion is wrong.
like I say my 30 odd years experience has kept me out of bother with idiots on bikes. So I don't need a prat like you brat giving me advice on how to deal with them.

brat

tight_scotsman wrote: »

Out of my depth ? Now we are being silly. It amazes me how some men in tights seem to think that if you don't prance around on a bike your opinion is wrong.
like I say my 30 odd years experience has kept me out of bother with idiots on bikes. So I don't need a prat like you brat giving me advice on how to deal with them.

We can call each other names TS.

But if you can't answer a simple question based on your opinion, then what else are we to think? If you're not out of your depth, please answer the question. I'll make it easy for you.

You said I will not allow them (cyclists) to dictate to me what is safe and what's not.

So, If they were using their road position to control you for their safety, how would you stop them from doing that?

brat

tight_scotsman wrote: »

With respect brat. A am a superior road user to a cyclist having passed 5 separate driving tests and a CPC then that makes me superior to any cyclist. Adding over 30 years accident free experience driving all types of vehicle.
Can you tell me what training cyclist get to prepare them for driving on our roads amongst qualified road users?

As discussed, cyclists don't have to have training.

I have had training from bikeability. 24 years ago I was trained to instruct cycling proficiency, and I have instructed cycling proficiency for much of the intervening period.

Most cyclists, particularly the 'men in tights' will have a car and will have passed a driving test. One lad I ride with is a driving instructor. Most of the group I ride with are regularly trained and retrained advanced drivers. I have additional qualifications on vehicle dynamics, driver behaviour and collision investigation that allow me to instruct provide expert evidence on driving at court.

Whatever our experience and training, what we mustn't do is close our minds to learning. I've learned lots of tactics and strategies on a bike that allow me to be safer on the road, and I'm still learning techniques way beyond that which I would learn from any short period of instruction.

You could learn things from the interchange on this forum, but until now it does seem that your belief in your superiority over other road users has closed your mind to the learning you clearly would benefit from. This learning would allow you to replace your frustration at cyclists with an understanding of why they do certain things.

Tilt

esuhl wrote: »

Likewise... where there is a shared motor and cycle road (i.e. any road other than a motorway), cyclists are allowed to cycle in the primary position if they feel like it.

Perhaps some driver training is needed...

(Of course it's courteous for cyclists to only do so when it is necessary... as it is courteous for pedestrians to only use a cycle path when necessary.)

Really? Not just when circumstances dictate then? :T

Retrogamer

tight_scotsman wrote: »

Can't say I have why don't you enlighten me.

He's currently one of Scotland's most skilled & famous cyclists but rarely cycles on the road and probably hasn't undergone any cycling training.
It was just to point out that years of experience and tests don't equate to skill.
Looking at most older motorists and their habits is evidence enough of that.

tight_scotsman

brat wrote: »

We can call each other names TS.

But if you can't answer a simple question based on your opinion, then what else are we to think? If you're not out of your depth, please answer the question. I'll make it easy for you.

You said I will not allow them (cyclists) to dictate to me what is safe and what's not.

So, If they were using their road position to control you for their safety, how would you stop them from doing that?

In answer to you question. If I come across a cyclist in the so called primary position or any other position for that matter. I will be down to me to decide when to execute my manovour regardless of the cyclists road position. The cyclist may be correct to prevent an overtake but I will still decide when it is safe not the cyclist. I have had the circumstances where a cyclist is waving me past him and it's not been safe to overtake. As you can appreciate lorry drivers are sitting much higher up in the cab so can see things ahead that cyclists would miss.
I also have a dash cam fitted so to do anything dangerous would just be plain stupid on my part.

Throbbe

brat wrote: »

Marco is probably way more clued up than I about the directives towards a city cycling infrastructure, but I don't agree that there's no desire to develop it. Progress will be slower outside the cities.

There are areas where progress is being made, such as the two new segregated facilities in Cambridge - http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/news/article/7/new_cycling_improvements_to_hills_rd_and_huntingdon_rd_in_cambridge

They're not perfect in my view, but it is a real attempt to improve the quality of ccle infrastructure and what has been encouraging is how much input the local authorities cycling team and cycling groups have had into the design. It's also worth noting that the leader of the design team regularly cycles to work along Huntingdon Road.

Other local authorities are taking a keen interest in these schemes and if they are succesful I'd hope that we see more like them.

brat

Tilt wrote: »

cyclists are allowed to cycle in the primary position if they feel like it.

Really? Not just when circumstances dictate then? :T

Actually, no.
The primary position is the default position for a cyclist to be in. That's why it was called 'primary'. It is the position s/he should choose unless circumstances (safety, consideration of others etc) dictate otherwise.

brat

tight_scotsman wrote: »

brat wrote:

You said I will not allow them (cyclists) to dictate to me what is safe and what's not.

So, If they were using their road position to control you for their safety, how would you stop them from doing that?

In answer to you question. If I come across a cyclist in the so called primary position or any other position for that matter. I will be down to me to decide when to execute my manovour regardless of the cyclists road position. The cyclist may be correct to prevent an overtake but I will still decide when it is safe not the cyclist. I have had the circumstances where a cyclist is waving me past him and it's not been safe to overtake. As you can appreciate lorry drivers are sitting much higher up in the cab so can see things ahead that cyclists would miss.
I also have a dash cam fitted so to do anything dangerous would just be plain stupid on my part.

Sorry to press the point, but you haven't answered my question.

If I put myself in a blocking primary position for half a mile in a 5 metre wide lane preventing your HGV from passing for safety reasons, but you believe you could pass safely if only I would move to the left, what would you do, given your comment that you "will not allow them (cyclists) to dictate to me what is safe and what is not"?

It doesn't sound like you would just roll over and take it on the chin from the cyclist, so what is your strategy in the above circumstance?

tight_scotsman

brat wrote: »

Sorry to press the point, but you haven't answered my question.

If I put myself in a blocking primary position for half a mile in a 5 metre wide lane preventing your HGV from passing for safety reasons, but you believe you could pass safely if only I would move to the left, what would you do, given your comment that you "will not allow them (cyclists) to dictate to me what is safe and what is not"?

It doesn't sound like you would just roll over and take it on the chin from the cyclist, so what is your strategy in the above circumstance?

You can dictate all you want I will overtake when I decide it is safe without endangering you or me or anyone else.
If you don't like the answer then don't ask the question