2016 benefits changes for working people?

[Deleted User]

benniebert wrote: »

What a wonderful idea! We seem to be going back into time when the working man cut his cloth according to his needs and managed to support himself and his family on only his income. What an incentive to be better educated, train, study more to get those better paid jobs and the promotion that would mean two holidays a year instead of the normal one?

These same 'wonderful' conditions also produced the Work House and unbeatable suffering, including many deaths. Read your history.

Spendless

benniebert wrote: »

What a wonderful idea! We seem to be going back into time when the working man cut his cloth according to his needs and managed to support himself and his family on only his income. What an incentive to be better educated, train, study more to get those better paid jobs and the promotion that would mean two holidays a year instead of the normal one?

Prior to the early 1970s then, as I believe it's from then a top up to wages, was introduced for low income families. I haven't noticed anything being changed with tax codes so you pay less tax if you have a family like it was years ago, so perhaps you mean even further back in history? One of my grandmothers (still alive) was brought up in those days, no incentive to be better educated, if there wasn't enough shoes to go round the 11 kids, someone stayed off school till another pair could be afforded and they all left education at 14 in order to bring some extra money into the household.

MissMoneypenny

zagfles wrote: »

with tax credits as I said income over a whole year is used, not just the last 6 months.

We see lots of posts on here from people who claimed Tax Credits for just a few months. Then they found a job to support themselves/their children without the need for benefits. But they were made to pay back all the TCs they claimed because TC are worked out on yearly income and claimed yearly. When the Tax Credits are replaced by the one benefit Universal Credit, it will be monthly claiming.

Does this mean that those who just used benefits as a short term help, won't be punished under UC and will not be made to return the money they claimed?

benniebert

deannatrois wrote: »

These same 'wonderful' conditions also produced the Work House and unbeatable suffering, including many deaths. Read your history.

No they didn't. Those that were working and earning in Victorian Britain and well into the 20th century supported themselves and their family - they certainly did not enter the workhouse!

I am talking about the pre 1970 period. There was no such thing as the government handing out money to top up wages - you were expected to work and provide for your family yourself. It was a stigma for those that failed in their duty and a criminal offence for the man to not maintain his wife and children properly. In 1971 the forerunner of Tax Credits came into being with FIS. This was means tested and based on what you earned. You had to work at least 30 hours a week and there was a maximum amount that you would get. Fortunately for the government for the time, take up was very poor believed to be because of the stigma attached to those that dared claim it and by 1986 it was abolished.


As for Pension Credit it was totally wrong that you could inherit or win millions and have no requirement to notify the DWP of the increase in you capital.

zagfles

benniebert wrote: »

No they didn't. Those that were working and earning in Victorian Britain and well into the 20th century supported themselves and their family - they certainly did not enter the workhouse!

I am talking about the pre 1970 period. There was no such thing as the government handing out money to top up wages - you were expected to work and provide for your family yourself

Of course there was. There was family allowance. There were married man's and child tax allowances. These were payments (or reductions in tax - same thing), available to working families.

A family with a single earner on average wage would be better off under the pre-70's system of tax allowances than they would be today, with tax credits but no account whatsoever of dependants in the income tax system.

thorsoak

Don't forget that the tax rate was higher in the 1960s/70s - 7s9d in the £ equates to about 38% rather than the 20% today.

rogerblack

Batman_100 wrote: »

So if I decided to splash out my hard earned cash on a nice car and a long haul holiday, but then suddenly got made redundant through no fault of my own, I wouldn't be able to claim anything because of the way I chose to spend my own money?

In some cases, yes, this is the effect.
And this differs from tax credits - in that with tax credits, you would still - if you lost your job - be entitled to JSA, HB (or mortgage support), council tax support.

With UC - if the surplus earnings regs hit you - you actually may have zero income for several months.

NYM

This confuses me so much !

So if someone loses their job through redundancy, they aren't entitled to claim unemployment benefits under UC because they may have earned too much before that redundancy ?

zagfles

thorsoak wrote: »

Don't forget that the tax rate was higher in the 1960s/70s - 7s9d in the £ equates to about 38% rather than the 20% today.

Yes which made the tax allowances of the 60's/70's worth even more.

benniebert

NYM wrote: »

This confuses me so much !

So if someone loses their job through redundancy, they aren't entitled to claim unemployment benefits under UC because they may have earned too much before that redundancy ?

That sounds quite reasonable. And I would add that if you are monthly paid, the salary should be treated as a payment to take you through the next month.
I was interested in this particular situation a while ago. I was looking at the Pension Credit regulations with regards to when you could claim. It seemed that you could claim from the following day after receiving your last monthly salary payment. In other words you have twice the money for the first month.
As an example if you finished work on the 30th April and received your final monthly salary payment, you could start to claim GPC as from the 1st May. No account was taken other than of capital of that final salary payment.
Additionally if you were receiving a monthly salary well above what would be said to be a standard living cost, it would be right to assume that that excess would/should have been saved.