Sold Car Privately - Buyer Unhappy - Wants to return - Help

wackojackouk

Hi everyone

Thanks for your input. Interesting to see different people's perspective and points of view but lets not turn it into an argument.

Couple of things

1. Last time I checked I'm male :rotfl:
2. SOGA doesn't apply to private sales according to AA/Which and Citizens Advice but the item must not be misrepresented/falsely advertised (which i don't think I did).

CAB
AA
Which

I think I have a small plan of action regarding the inspection (although I think it's kinda mute because the car is not going to be in the same condition if it's not been driven NOR is the point - see above) but not going to disclose it in full here because of the time frame.

As far as I can see it's going to depend on the judge itself but I don't see why I wouldn't win or at the very worse lose completely and have to pay out over £2.7k on a £2.2k car sale.

George_Michael

wackojackouk wrote: »

2. SOGA doesn't apply to private sales according to AA/Which and Citizens Advice but the item must not be misrepresented/falsely advertised (which i don't think I did).

CAB
AA
Which.

None of those links specifically state that the SOGA doesn't apply to private sales, simply that the rights of the buyer are reduced in these cases.
On this "Which" website:
http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/the-second-hand--car-i-bought-has-a-problem-what-are-my-rights
They clearly agree with what I stated in my earlier post:

You have fewer rights when you buy from a private seller and key parts of the Sale of Goods Act don't apply – there is no legal requirement for a car to be of satisfactory quality or fit for purpose.

As you rightly say, as long as the judge believes that the car was accurately described at the time of sale then hopefully you won't have any problems.

wackojackouk

TBH the whole thing has put me off selling a car privately in future.

Worst of all the car could be repaired to a satisfactory condition using second hand parts for under £500 and have been done and dusted by now and nto waste people's time and effort. By the time the case comes to court the claimant would have paid out over £400 (case submission, case to court and potentially half of the mechanic report).

Joe_Horner

wackojackouk wrote: »

TBH the whole thing has put me off selling a car privately in future.

Worst of all the car could be repaired to a satisfactory condition using second hand parts for under £500 and have been done and dusted by now and nto waste people's time and effort. By the time the case comes to court the claimant would have paid out over £400 (case submission, case to court and potentially half of the mechanic report).

All of which goes in your favour seeing as (iirc without re-reading many pages) you did offer to help sort it early on, but the buyer wouldn't play.

The key thing from the judge's point of view now is for him to see you continuing to be the more reasonable and grown-up party - which is why advice effectively amounting to "(text removed by MSE Forum Team) the seller about and hope they fold" is so dangerous

patman99

Btw, neither the RAC or AA will provide vehicle inspection reports for use in Court cases. In fact, they have a statement in the report that says it cannot be used as evidence in Court.

When I needed a car inspected when I took the seller (a dealer) to Court, I used an inspector from http://www.iaea-online.org/
These guys are the ones who inspect crashed vehicles for the Police. The one who checked the car for me only cost me £100 which is less than I paid 10 years ago for an RAC report.

When the report is generated and sent to the Court, add a separate sheet noting that the buyer had informed you that the car had been worked-on by an un-qualified mechanic the day after purchase and a qualified mechanic a while afterwards, so the report in no way reflects the state of the vehicle at time of purchase.

EdGasket

patman99 wrote: »

When the report is generated and sent to the Court, add a separate sheet noting that the buyer had informed you that the car had been worked-on by an un-qualified mechanic the day after purchase and a qualified mechanic a while afterwards, so the report in no way reflects the state of the vehicle at time of purchase.

In other words pretty pointless then and a waste of money. Looks like the court has not properly read the case details and/or have no logic about them.

Marktheshark

EdGasket wrote: »

In other words pretty pointless then and a waste of money. Looks like the court has not properly read the case details and/or have no logic about them.

It's a roundabout way of saying.
No other expert evidence, in other words the evidence submitted by the Claimant is no allowed, which as it has not been prepared by a court service listed expert witness, its not.
Then it tells the Claimant to Go away and agree on a joint service using a approved expert witness and share the cost.
It is a Directions instruction, if it is not met, the case wont be decided on "spite" it will be decided on facts.
No facts will mean no case.

If the OP starts booking expert witnesses and the Claimant backs out, she will end up paying for it, the "directions" are not a court order or judgement and nobody works for free.

As I say again, All she has to do is await contact from the claimant and agree, choices are limited and the examiner will have to be an approved expert witness .

The Claimant might decide this is starting to become a lot more trouble and a lot harder than she thought, her mechanics evidence has been ruled straight out, she now has the cost of paying a real one, which wont be cheap.
She knows she could lose the case as it is very weak, it was second hand car sold as seen.
Caveat Emptor and its extensive case law is heavy weight defence.

I would say play it cool and see what her next move is after this knock back from the court.

If the directions are not met by the Claimants failure to act upon them, the next hearing will be case struck out.

Some see this as deliberately obstructing the court.
Nonsense, and when it is them getting sued, they might realise, you do not help anyone to sue you, you play the game smartly and within the rules.

If the Claimant runs out of steam after this huge knock back and that is what it is, she thought she was going to roll in with a boat load of bunkum from some two bit mechanic and walk out with a free car, well it has just gone seriously South with that idea.

If she goes for an expert witness route the report is not going to be weighted, it will be factual.
Then when this hurdle is cleared, she has the defence to get round.

Unless the woman is not altogether upstairs she might just decide to throw it before thing get expensive.
Add a counter claim in if she continues and the pressure really starts to mount.
It's a game, a legal game and you do not help your opponent play against you, if they suddenly find the game is too hard to play and not going as planned they quite often will "quit whilst they are winning" .

I would say at this stage the ball has fallen right in the OP's court.

Retrogamer

patman99 wrote: »

When the report is generated and sent to the Court, add a separate sheet noting that the buyer had informed you that the car had been worked-on by an un-qualified mechanic the day after purchase and a qualified mechanic a while afterwards, so the report in no way reflects the state of the vehicle at time of purchase.

I'd also add at the time the car was sold, it was working ok and buyer was aware of the wear and tear in the gear linkage and the price was made to reflect this.

patman99

An inspector from the site I listed will be approved by the Court as they provide expert evidence in Court cases on behalf of the Police.

Cost ?, about £100.

You need to contact the claimant and let them know that there is an independant inspection service available that is impartial and considered to be 'expert' in the eyes of the Court. It is then down to her as to whether or not she agrees to go ahead.

If she doesn't, then you can contact the Court and submit that you have attempted to comply with the Direction, but the other party is refusing to do so. This will not go down well with the Court and will count against her.

almillar

This very site's guide on second hand goods, from traders and private sellers, is pretty clear on the buyer's rights (not much!).
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/shopping/consumer-rights-refunds-exchange#second