Has your child attended Catholic school when not Catholic?

Savvy_Sue

Spendless wrote: »

I've no idea if you are talking about Primary or Secondary, but something I have seen mentioned before (about a Catholic secondary) was that if you need a school bus to transport the child there, Catholic children take priority. If all the spaces are filled, you'd have to make your own arrangements. It's a few years since I read this so I don't know if this is still true or how widespread this is.

Could have been me: what was more, the Catholic children didn't have to pay for the bus, because the diocese paid, but the non-Catholic children did, termly in advance.

susancs wrote: »

This was stopped some years ago in our area. Some years ago, school bus places were offered to children living 5 miles from their nearest faith school. However now if there is a nearer school, then as it is a choice situation to go a faith school further away, parents do not get offered a priority or funded place on school transport. I understand that historically the free transport to nearest faith schools over 5 miles from children's home was given to children practising those faiths, by way of recognition of the fact that many faith groups own the land and orginal buildings and provided these free of charge for educational purposes, saving the LEA leasing and or building costs.

When we moved, DS1 (followed by his brothers) went to the nearest CofE school, and I was astonished to discover that the LEA would pay their bus fares because I'd chosen the nearest appropriate faith school. We're not CofE! However I understand that's now been phased out.

Janepig wrote: »

I should add, instead of just ranting afew points to consider which may or may not be pertinent to the OP. I think transport costs have been mentioned. Alot of Local Authorities are cutting back on free transport to faith schools, certainly they are getting rid of it locally, and not before time imo. Given the vast wealth of the Catholic church, maybe the Pope should stick his hand in his pocket and cough up for buses if they want the kids to have free transport.

See above, clearly the Pope was sticking his hand in his pocket in the past ... :rotfl:

Transport is definitely something I'd pay more attention to now: DS1 occasionally missed the bus in the morning, and fortunately on each occasion I had the car (I think we were a two car family in those days). But it was always horrid, I'd have to hassle the younger two into school as quickly as possible, then drive across town to get DS1 there, and he'd be late, and I'd be late for work, and ...

Where they went after we'd moved it was at least easy for them to get there by bus! If they missed the bus they were aiming for, it wasn't my problem!

Jagraf

susancs wrote: »

OP, I do not have experience as a non-catholic attending a catholic school, as both myself and my husband as Catholics attended catholic primary and secondary schools and our children attended catholic primary school and are in a catholic secondary school. I also have taught at Catholic, COE and non catholic primary schools over the years.

I must admit that I do not see the point in attending a Catholic school unless that faith is important to the child or family. The reason I say this is that there are more lessons given over to R.E that have to come out of the curriculum time compard to non-faith schools. Then you have time out from the curriculum for mass and prayers. In other schools there will be more core subject lesson time. In primary school, they often have Religious Education Catholic based homework that Parents have to help with. There are masses, parents are encouraged to go to, such as Mothers and Fathers Day, Saints Days during school time. Also a lot of the children will do their First Communion in Juniors and Confirmation in Secondary School. In one daughter's year 3 class there was only one non Catholic child, who did not do her First Communion in the church one Sunday (or attend the weekly after-school preparation classes). Her mother did say she was really feeling sad and a bit left out, when all the talk in the playground for weeks before was about this. The Parent said she also felt a bit embarassed when she did not know certain aspects of Catholicism that other parents knew. For example she sent in a ham sandwich for her child's packed lunch on a meat abstinence day (not a big issue, but she felt emabarassed), she had to ring other parents to get help with understanding what was required for the R.E. homework at times.

In Secondary school it similar as they may have a termly retreat day when they have no other lessons or they may miss a core subject lesson to go to mass. Non Catholic friends of mine who teach at Catholic secondary schools often complain about the need to make up this time, especially in the GCSE courses. Also in secondary school my children only had two GCSE option choices due to having to do R.E. as a compulsory core subject but other local schools get a choice of 3 options. My eldest daughter does 4 A levels at 6th form and they do regular additonal compulsory R.E. non A level lessons that are timetabled in, that takes away from revision time (unless you are taking A level R.E.). Having said that the school is rated as Outstanding with excellent academic results, but even so there is only one child who is not a Catholic in the Sixth form. Also another thing you may want to consider is that VA Catholic faith schools get 90% capital costs funding compared to the 100% that other schools get. This means that there may be a drive in these schools to persuade parents to pay schools funds to help make up the 10% or they may just have less funding than other similar non-faith schools if this shortfall is not made up.

From a non catholic perspective I haven't found that my daughter or us have felt in any way left out or pushed into a religion. MY DDs RE teacher isn't catholic. She has has to take RE as a GCSE but schools follow the curriculum and are none biased. I would be worried if your schools RE lessons are biased towards Catholicism. The whole ham sandwich issue seems a bit weird too, and not normal. It certainly isn't the case in DD catholic school? Also every school has to have a certain amount of hours for core subjects so I would worry if this isn't happening - first and foremost its a school.

How do you know who is catholic and who isn't in the whole of a sixth form?

Your experience sounds very different from mine :eek:

Janepig

totallybored wrote: »

Your neighbour is a UKIP supporter? Tax payers shouldn't send their children to school? A child doesn't have a right to an education because of their parents? Local has a meaning I'm not aware of? Schools gain addition funding depending on their intake and spend it on the children it's aimed at?

My neighbour passed away at the end of last year but to my knowledge was no right winger. More than likely Labour living in this area. She clearly wasn't that bothered about it because they didn't move the kids from the school and it wasn't told to me in the form of a rant, just that from what she could see she felt the English speaking (there you go, not "local") kids were "missing out" because all the spare resources/money the school had was going on helping the children who couldn't speak English.

I wouldn't have sent my children there anyway just purely because I don't agree with religious schools of any nature, but it's not something I have a view on either way, I didn't give an opinion in my post. I just put it out there because it may put some people off putting their children in a school where there are alot of children who are not fluent in English.

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

See above, clearly the Pope was sticking his hand in his pocket in the past ... :rotfl:

Well done the Pope!! I know in this LA and the two neighbouring ones, the buses are paid for because there is talk of them removing that privilege and the parents are up in arms. It makes no difference if the kids are Catholic or non-Catholic, at the moment their transport is paid for. One of the issues the protesting parents have is that transport is also paid for children who go to Welsh medium schools and who live more than three miles out, and that's not being removed.

Jx

susancs

Jagraf wrote: »

From a non catholic perspective I haven't found that my daughter or us have felt in any way left out or pushed into a religion. MY DDs RE teacher isn't catholic. She has has to take RE as a GCSE but schools follow the curriculum and are none biased. I would be worried if your schools RE lessons are biased towards Catholicism. The whole ham sandwich issue seems a bit weird too, and not normal. It certainly isn't the case in DD catholic school? Also every school has to have a certain amount of hours for core subjects so I would worry if this isn't happening - first and foremost its a school.

How do you know who is catholic and who isn't in the whole of a sixth form?

Your experience sounds very different from mine :eek:

I must admit I am surprised that you have not found that lessons are underpinned by Catholicism, as inspections are carried out bythe local Catholic Diocese under section 48 of the Education Act 2005 to ensuret he school is meeting the aims of the Catholic ethos, teaching and faith development of pupils (you can usually find this report on the school websitewith the OFSTED report). This is done in addition to OFSTED inspections and agrading given, with measures put in place for schools who do not meet the Catholic Education Policy. Here is the Westminster Diocese inspection information, but there will also be one for other dioceses. The report will also mention the number of teachers who have the Catholic Ceritificate Of Religious Studies and these usually teach Religious studies in the school and influence R.E. practice.

http://rcdow.org.uk/att/files/education/inspection/pdf+inspection+framework+jan2015.pdf

It is very unusual that your DD's catholic Secondary school is just following a compulsory non denominational course in R.E. for GCSE, rather than studying the Edexcel GCSE in Religious studies with units in Roman Catholic Christanity.


In relation to your " bit weird... not normal "comment about a Catholic school not having meat on the menu on AshWednesday, this is usually standard practice in schools in our area, but would not be made a big deal of, if a parent did not realise or forgot. My friend's child mentioned to her, when coming out of primary school that she did not eat the ham as none of their friends were eating meat as it was Ash Wednesday. In case this jogs your memory, it is also the day that they come out from school with black ashes on their forehead that they get put on them during mass.

In regard to all schools having certain amount of time for core subjects, the point I was trying to make here was that forexample period 1-2 on Monday might usually be GCSE Biology, but instead it is a whole year group mass. You may another day also have a situation where half theclass are in forms that have gone on a prayer retreat, so this lesson has to berepeated. The lesson(s) has to be time tabled elsewhere, which means that theyusually finish the course later than other local schools, so have less revisiontime/classes, exam technique practise. This can be a problem if there are unplanned events such as school closures due to snow, class teacher sickness,etc as the course finishes even closer to the exam. It also stands to reason that as Catholic schools have to timetable at least 10% of the curriculum asR.E. lessons as per Diocese guidelines and in non-denominational schools, R.E.although compulsory, is not part of the National curriculum, so is often downgraded to having much less time than in faith schools and hence this time can be allocated to other curriculum subjects that maybe those who were not interested in R.E. might consider more important.

To explain how DD knows who is and isn't catholic in the sixth form, it is a small sixth form, where they all know each other from the lower years as it has a low leavers rate and they only took in one student who was not already attending the school from a nearby C.O.E. Secondary school (he is a C.O.E member who wants to do theology and religious studies at University and his twin remained in his previous CEO secondary school according to DD).The school is very oversubscribed and this year alone had nearly 900 applicants for 120 places in year 7, Sept 2015. The top criteria is looked after baptised practising catholics, followed by baptised practising Catholics with siblings, 3rd criteria is baptised catholics in certain parishes, other children is the 11th criteria. So you will understand that the school usually has all catholics,on entry and also has a healthy waiting list of Catholics (as many do not get a place, when it comes down to home to school distance). The 6th form top admissions criteria is baptised Catholics currently attending the school with certain higher than average grades at GCSE, so again mainly Catholics. This may not be the case in less well subscribed schools with 6th form.

Savvy_Sue

Janepig wrote: »

My neighbour passed away at the end of last year but to my knowledge was no right winger. More than likely Labour living in this area. She clearly wasn't that bothered about it because they didn't move the kids from the school and it wasn't told to me in the form of a rant, just that from what she could see she felt the English speaking (there you go, not "local") kids were "missing out" because all the spare resources/money the school had was going on helping the children who couldn't speak English.

You can get the situation of lots of non-English speaking children in non-faith schools though. Where we used to live, we had a sudden influx of Korean families at the local non-faith school the younger boys were at, their parents were studying at the University and it was quite convenient. And I think a lot of foreign students sent their children to one of the schools in the posher catchment area.

Spendless

An option choice being reduced due to having to do GCSE RE would be an issue to me. My children's school has changed their options process since DS picked his last year and I looked it up only yesterday. Now at their school the kids have to pick a language or history or geography as one of their choices (whereas DS doesn't do any of those) and if selected for triple science which DS was, that has to be picked from the option choices, whereas it was just automatically put on the timetable of compulsory subjects last year. That would mean if DS was at a school where RE was also a compulsory choice, he'd have just one subject he could freely choose himself.

I think from looking back that the OP is talking about Primary school, so not something she has to think about but then I'd also want to know what happens when they go to Secondary. I know lots of area have kids that scatter all over, but where I live the huge majority go to the connected Secondary. Both my kids have had the situation in yr6 where there's only been one child out of the whole year of 80-90 kids not going to the same Secondary as they are and have felt 'left out' from their friends and peers during the time when school places are announced and the end of their time at Primary, so I'd want to know more about that, how many go to Catholic Secondary from the Primary, the liklihood of gaining a place as a non-Catholic and if 'd be happy with a Catholic Secondary.

f0nz

My children go to Catholic primary school and we are not Catholic. I am Christian, the kids have been christened and my hubby is an atheist. I am extremely happy with their education and think their school is fantastic! We've opted them out of first communion and the "heavier religious" activities but I'm happy for them to partake in the daily prayers and mass as they say prayers for thanks and prayers for those who are in need which to me are good things to pray for no matter what religion you are.

We've never had any issues in opting out of anything and have never been made to feel awkward.

They'll no doubt go to a Catholic high school too as they seem to have better scores/reputations etc around here plus they won't have to leave all their friends going to a different school.

georgie262

Gosh - I'm 32 now so a while since I was at school but I went to a catholic CONVENT school and don't remember the religious aspect being so pronounced at all - maybe because it was normalised to me. The only thing I know was slightly unusual or different was how strict it was - lunches were eaten in silence (apparently so we could hear the fire alarm I have never heard such ridiculous excuses for their fascist regime) and if you spoke or were naughty you had to stand on the stage. I don't remember anyone particularly standing out if the weren't catholic either it never occurred to me at school but now I know that at least one of my good friends at school was no religion and I'd imagine there was probably more the only difference I remember is that they would cross their arms across their chest and be blessed instead of receiving communion.
I don't even remember the no meat rule on Ash Wednesday or that it was ever an issue. As you can probably tell I am no longer a practicing Catholic.

snowleopard61

I attended a Catholic convent (fee-paying) school in the 60s and 70s for my entire school life (primary and secondary) as a non-Catholic, which was the case for probably almost half the girls in the school. I loved it and was very happy – it was strict and there was corporal punishment (I got the cane a fair few times at primary level), but we felt completely cared for by the school and the nuns. I decided at the age of 13 that I wanted to be received into the Catholic church myself, although my parents made me wait until I was 18 before I finally did so. There was certainly no attempt to put pressure on anyone to convert and it was very much something I initiated myself. I was then a practising Catholic for a number of years, although eventually (for complicated and personal reasons) I first attended an Anglican church for a number of years and then ceased to practise any faith.

Both my children attended a Catholic state secondary school, although again they were not Catholic (at the time they started at the school they were baptised and practising Anglicans). They liked the school and I think, on the whole, were relatively oblivious to its specific religious stance. It was certainly less strict than mine. They usually chose to attend school Masses, though they obviously didn’t receive Communion. Their school not only had numbers of non-Catholic pupils but, as it was the only all-girls’ school in the area, also had large numbers of Muslim, Hindu and Sikh girls. It was certainly the most cosmopolitan school in the area as well as the one with the best academic results.

Janepig

Savvy_Sue wrote: »

You can get the situation of lots of non-English speaking children in non-faith schools though. Where we used to live, we had a sudden influx of Korean families at the local non-faith school the younger boys were at, their parents were studying at the University and it was quite convenient. And I think a lot of foreign students sent their children to one of the schools in the posher catchment area.

Oh of course, it's just that this area isn't particularly ethnically diverse, and the only children you'd get needing language assistance would be the Poles and Filipinos, both of whom attend the Catholic school. But obviously in many areas it's ordinary non faith schools who have children with English as a second language, not just Catholic schools.

The only school around here with a large number of children from a wide variety of ethnic backgrounds is the private school my brother went to.

Jx