NIP for using handheld whilst driving - Mobile phone log says I didn't

AdrianC

dunroving wrote: »

I see an awful lot of people on my way to work every day (an hour stuck in traffic) using phones. It's quite comical to see the various ways they try to disguise it, and if they ever detect someone watching them, their attempts to pretend they are doing something else are equally comical.

The ones that always make me chuckle are the ones with their phones on speaker, held away from them, as if that somehow means it's OK.

NiallB

Mr_Incredible wrote: »

I have hands free blue tooth.

Yeah, we know.

it's an automatic transmission

Yeah, we know.

I think everybody's got that now.

Mr_Incredible

redux wrote: »

Absolutely.

The test isn't whether a call was in progress, but whether handling the device was a distraction from the task of handling the car.

FALSE!

The test is whether 'the driver was using a hand held mobile phone'

The court can only test what is accused.

I wasn't, never pressed any buttons even, took it out my pocket and carefully and slowly transfered it to the dash cove.

The phone wasn't used simple.

People seem to be introducing lots of irrelevant things but one needs to focus on what was accused.

Can they "prove beyond reasonable doubt" something occurred that did not?

I don't see how and none of the comments above suggest otherwise.

Mr_Incredible

TrickyWicky wrote: »

And as i've said to you before, harping on about it being an automatic transmission will not help you. Further, having the BT kit fitted (when you claim you were not even using the phone) is also not going to help you. The magistrate will simply see this as an attempt to distract and it will look bad on you.

On top of that, you admit that you had one hand on the wheel - when you had no reason to use a gearstick - this does not look good.

You have to keep this simple: Create reasonable doubt (phone records) and attempt to discredit the police officer. Attempting to credit yourself with an automatic transmission and a bluetooth hands free kit that wasn't apparently in use will do nothing for you.



Agreed however unless the policeman is willing to lie and exagerate his claims then he can only realistically say that he saw the motorist holding the phone for a few seconds while repositioning it. Having his phone on his lap is not unlawful so this is meaningless from the prosecutions POV.



Why? Does that make him guilty as sin? Realistically you're looking to tarnish the op and make people think he is guilty and thats not a very nice thing to do. The op has come here and asked for advice, explained his situation, what happened and how to deal with it. Granted I do find the "where i could see who's calling" and "it was turned off" thing to be conflicting however having the phone positioned so that you can see who is calling is not an unlawful act so regardless of being turned on or off, this minor detail isn't really important.

So to recap: having the phone sat on his lap: lawful - hand use is what counts
phone records that create reasonable doubt: hopeful
making sure that you can drive safely without distraction: lawful

Yes the op should probably have pulled over but we all know there are roads out there that don't allow this with traffic behind you.

Me personally I'd challenge it but then I would be looking to discredit the policeman in every way possible. The op however seems to think that having one hand on the wheel (no due care) of an automatic that is handsfree will save him so maybe he should just pay it.

@Mr Incredible I still wonder why you think the auto and handsfree will save you? - You were not making a call so the handsfree is irrelevant and the auto doesn't have anything to do with a phone either.. so why are you so convinced this will make a difference?

On point, helpful, thank you

Mr_Incredible

I'VE GOT IT!!!

I have the nail in the coffin of the 'beyond reasonable doubt' assertion that I was using my mobile

Thank you everybody, the variety of points on here has given me so much fuel to examine every angle that I've realised a critical pathway to smash the unfounded assertion.

Mr_Incredible

BeenThroughItAll wrote: »

Sounds as though there was an element of attitude-test failure there as well.

It was a bit confusing at the time

I didn't know what I was being told to pull over for. The officer told me to get out the car. I asked what for what's the problem? He yanked ar the passenger door handle but it was locked because on BMW they autolock when driving.

He then called a colleague and came round drivers side and I opened my window a tad. Asked what the problem was and he said open the door and get out or we will force entry.

I said, I'm going to ask you one more time what you gave stopped me for, he then said "road traffic offence", I asked which one specifically and he just replied to get out of the car.

weird way to carry on but at that point I gave in and got out.

He asked me if I was using phone to make an emery call and I replied NO

He didn't ask any further questions about the phone or ask to see it. I think I asked reasonable questions as far as I could but from there it was all his questioning which was about me and the car make and model etc

Right at the end where he tried to get me to sign I made him write that I refuted any allegation of using my mobile phone while driving

Not much more I could have done

he did ask early on if I wanted to sit in my car with him in passenger seat, I said no we can stand roadside thanks.

photome

Mr_Incredible wrote: »

It was a bit confusing at the time

I didn't know what I was being told to pull over for. The officer told me to get out the car. I asked what for what's the problem? He yanked ar the passenger door handle but it was locked because on BMW they autolock when driving.

He then called a colleague and came round drivers side and I opened my window a tad. Asked what the problem was and he said open the door and get out or we will force entry.

I said, I'm going to ask you one more time what you gave stopped me for, he then said "road traffic offence", I asked which one specifically and he just replied to get out of the car.

weird way to carry on but at that point I gave in and got out.

He asked me if I was using phone to make an emery call and I replied NO

He didn't ask any further questions about the phone or ask to see it. I think I asked reasonable questions as far as I could but from there it was all his questioning which was about me and the car make and model etc

Right at the end where he tried to get me to sign I made him write that I refuted any allegation of using my mobile phone while driving

Not much more I could have done

he did ask early on if I wanted to sit in my car with him in passenger seat, I said no we can stand roadside thanks.

Is that the attitude test fail?

I may be naive and still respect the police (just) as that was how I was brought up.

In the above incident I would have got out without any questions

Mr_Incredible

photome wrote: »

Is that the attitude test fail?

I may be naive and still respect the police (just) as that was how I was brought up.

In the above incident I would have got out without any questions

He ran out into the road banging on my window, I had no clue ar the time what any of it was about and naturally enquired, he wouldn't tell me. Very odd indeed

Took me about five attempts to get him to say, and even then it was vague. Now I understand more about police tactics o realise just how tricky they can be in purge random stops and traps. They were lining the pavement that day and looking for any excuse to pull people over. This wasn't a one off. They were pulling loads of people over. I just didn't realise to begin with

Mr_Incredible

It's all adds to my favour as instead of an officer randomly seeing something that is so striking he feels the need to act, they were indeed actively looking for any excuse with eyes firmly fixed on motorists on a bottleneck

[Deleted User]

I haven't read the whole thread, but the safest thing to do is not touch your phone at all while driving. If mine falls out of my pocket while driving I just leave it. I don't particularly need to know who is calling while I'm driving either.