The Future - SMART Meter and Truly Variable Unit Prices

GaryOctogen

Variable (time of use) tariffs don't mean that the Supplier maintains some sort of interactive pricing system with you. Its effectively a block tariff, where different prices are charged for different time periods - a bit like a more complex economy 7. eg:

off-peak 10pm to 7am / 10am to 12pm / 1pm to 4pm - 5p/KWh
breakfast and lunch 7am to 10am / 12pm to 1pm - 10p/KWh
peak 4pm to 10pm = 50p/KWh

that way they can "incentivise" people off the peak periods (where the cost of buying in the generation is more). The high peak price will be the stick, the much cheaper off-peak is the carrot. It will be attractive to some, hated by others.

The meters record a reading every half hour and send that back to the supplier so they can easily match up the cost against the number of units.

GingerBob_3

GaryOctogen wrote: »

Variable (time of use) tariffs don't mean that the Supplier maintains some sort of interactive pricing system with you. Its effectively a block tariff, where different prices are charged for different time periods - a bit like a more complex economy 7. eg:

off-peak 10pm to 7am / 10am to 12pm / 1pm to 4pm - 5p/KWh
breakfast and lunch 7am to 10am / 12pm to 1pm - 10p/KWh
peak 4pm to 10pm = 50p/KWh

that way they can "incentivise" people off the peak periods (where the cost of buying in the generation is more). The high peak price will be the stick, the much cheaper off-peak is the carrot. It will be attractive to some, hated by others.

The meters record a reading every half hour and send that back to the supplier so they can easily match up the cost against the number of units.

Or another period of your choosing - the longer the better; three months being the ideal. Do you really want some snooper looking at the half-hour level of detail and selling it on to ... well just about anyone?

Cardew

GaryOctogen wrote: »

Variable (time of use) tariffs don't mean that the Supplier maintains some sort of interactive pricing system with you. Its effectively a block tariff, where different prices are charged for different time periods - a bit like a more complex economy 7. eg:

off-peak 10pm to 7am / 10am to 12pm / 1pm to 4pm - 5p/KWh
breakfast and lunch 7am to 10am / 12pm to 1pm - 10p/KWh
peak 4pm to 10pm = 50p/KWh

that way they can "incentivise" people off the peak periods (where the cost of buying in the generation is more). The high peak price will be the stick, the much cheaper off-peak is the carrot. It will be attractive to some, hated by others.

The meters record a reading every half hour and send that back to the supplier so they can easily match up the cost against the number of units.

Welcome to the forum.


The thrust of Ofgem's ill thought out interference in domestic tariffs was to make them simpler for customers who couldn't understand the tier system.


If they couldn't understand the tier system, I wonder how they will get on choosing a supplier/tariff in the forthcoming 'stick and carrot' era!

facade

How exactly am I supposed to move my consumption?
In The Olden Days you could get night storage heaters, but about the only thing you can do now is set the washing machine on delayed start.
It would be nice if someone could produce a cheap, efficient energy storage device that I could charge up off peak, and discharge on-peak.:cool:

Unless I go nocturnal, I'm stuck with needing energy at peak times.:mad:

Somewhat like the helpful "Energy Saving" advice you get from the energy saving toolkit:

"Are you warm?" (If yes, turn the heating down)
"Can you see to read this?" (If yes, turn the lights off):rotfl:

[Deleted User]

facade wrote: »

I've been resisting the "free upograde" to smartmeters for years now, as far as I can see, the only winner would be the supplier, as they can finally sack the last meter reader.

I don't believe any hype about "more accurate", as the old clockwork ones would have been built to give me the benefit of any innacuracy.

My biggest fear is the installer taking one look at my perfectly serviceable bakelite fusebox, and condemming the whole lot until I get the house bought upto 21st century standards.

Don t worry about that, the meter installers are nt trained to that level to be able to condemn that reliable old fuse box. He never looked twice at mine when my smart meter went in.
Personally I would nt be getting in a flap about variable pricing on smarts, by the time that happens the Russians will be in power and we ll do what we re told

GaryOctogen

Cardew wrote: »

Welcome to the forum.

The thrust of Ofgem's ill thought out interference in domestic tariffs was to make them simpler for customers who couldn't understand the tier system.

If they couldn't understand the tier system, I wonder how they will get on choosing a supplier/tariff in the forthcoming 'stick and carrot' era!

Thanks

You are right, their premise of this (and the whole smart rollout) seems to be that it will engender some sort of behavioural change, but I don't see it having that effect at all. These tariffs are not suitable for most people. On smart metering, beyond an initial curiosity period, most people will ignore the info on display from the unit. If they are interested in saving money, then they are probably already analysing their consumption and making changes.

GingerBob wrote: »

Or another period of your choosing - the longer the better; three months being the ideal. Do you really want some snooper looking at the half-hour level of detail and selling it on to ... well just about anyone?

The meters will record the Half Hourly data which is collected by a nationwide data collector centrally, however the Supplier can determine whether they get that data (if I remember rightly they need customer approval) or just get an aggregated monthly read to bill you from.

facade wrote: »

How exactly am I supposed to move my consumption?
In The Olden Days you could get night storage heaters, but about the only thing you can do now is set the washing machine on delayed start.

True - most people aren't going to benefit from this. It will be people with "non typical" lifestyles (night workers etc.) that will get a benefit, however they already offset the peak so there would be no system benefit from them. Ofgem and DECC seem to think people are going to be cooking their family meals in the middle of the night because its more expensive. The reality is that this is not for the vast majority. Time of use tariffs work best for industrial and commercial customers with an alternate power source (e.g. onsite diesel generators) or a movable work pattern (e.g. an automated factory)

facade

GaryOctogen wrote: »

Thanks

You are right, their premise of this (and the whole smart rollout) seems to be that it will engender some sort of behavioural change, but I don't see it having that effect at all. These tariffs are not suitable for most people. On smart metering, beyond an initial curiosity period, most people will ignore the info on display from the unit. If they are interested in saving money, then they are probably already analysing their consumption and making changes.

My neighbour has one. Got the little remote energy readout as well.
Somehow he is supposed to see that he is using "a lot" and switch something off.

Taking the view that at 13p per Kwh you don't exactly stick a couple of fan heaters in the garden to waste money, I fail to see the advantage, as if you could "switch it off" you wouldn't have it on in the first place

Rather like my somewhat facetious comment earlier: "Are you warm? then turn the heating off" I've turned it so far down over the years that is all that is left

System

Coming your way soon. Para 1.3 is worth a read:

http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=sn06179

alleycat`

It strikes me that section 1.3 is a "cover" for a long term lack of coherent energy policy and has very little to do with a lot of the other fluffy things it talks about.

I assume the people that tend to write these things are either, not right in the head, or trying to lipstick up a pig.

facade

Interesting, so if my meter goes quiet, EON know the power is out, and can mobilise a repair crew, so I don't have to phone the Distribution company.

The roll-out of smart meters is an important national modernisation programme, which will bring big benefits to consumers, as well as the nation. We therefore expect consumers to welcome their installation.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I still fail to see what the Big Benefits to me are, having read the itemised lists

It looks like we will need smart washers, driers freezers etc. that all come on whenever the unit rate drops, and switch off when it increases :mad: