Landlord selling the flat - Viewings

ViolaLass

Rednax wrote: »

I as an agent can legitimately write a reference that would scare any future landlord off

True, but as an LL in another thread recently discovered, all that does is stop the tenant leaving the property and backfires for all concerned.

pyueck

Rednax wrote: »

Reading some of these threads I am concerned about the 'militant' nature of some of the 'advice' given so as a lettings agent would like to offering some sort of balance as to what I would feel is fair:

-Whenever a property is due to come on the market (to re-let or sell) I will contact the current tenant to inform them and ask them when is convenient for them to have viewings. Given that most buyers/tenants are at work 9-5 I expect to be allowed 1-2 evenings in the week and a couple of hours slot at the weekend (if a prospective buyer/tenant really wants the property they will make themselves available for one on these times). We have a good working relationship with tenants and all of them appreciate this, hell, nearly all of them are happy to do the viewings for us.

-I will not raise comment with a current tenant that a property is untidy unless I feel that the untidiness is specifically putting off prospective buyers/tenants. If so, I will explain this politely to the current tenant, and expect them to have made some sort of effort within a reasonable time (i.e. allowing a weekend to clean if they work in the week)

In return:

-I will always give current tenants at least 24 hours notice in writing (text is fine) of viewings and never just turn up unannounced.

-I will give the current tenants a good reference.

-I will not be completely ana1 with little things on the check-out

There are plenty of horror stories on these boards about lettings agents we do not do the above, and I completely agree with those who are aggrieved by it. However, I think it is important that those (often inexperienced) reading these threads do not just blindly follow the 'advice' of those who want to start a fight with the 'evil letting agents'. There are consequences to these actions (i.e. changing the locks, obstructing access), as misspickle has quite rightly said, I as an agent can legitimately write a reference that would scare any future landlord off, and there is enough threads on here about agents claiming amounts from tenant's deposits for the most small things...

Rednax, thanks for your post.

I completely agree in most circumstances compromise on both parts works best and allowing viewings should be no problem.

When you say 'expect' I think you should re-phrase to something like, I am grateful if the tenant allows etc..., I would never expect to be allowed to go into a tenants home and don't think this sends the right tone to an amicable relationship.

When you talk about militant let me be clear. I am not saying that a tenant should refuse viewings or should go out their way to be obnoxious. However in this post the agency has told the tenant that they have a black mark against them for the condition of their property despite allowing viewings 3 months before the tenancy ends. This is not acceptable and therefore as the agency has broken the goodwill I don't see why the tenant should accept this behavior.

You can certainly ask a tenant to clean up, however they are under no obligation to do it. It is their home and they can live as they like while they are paying the rent. Your bit about 'giving them a weekend' etc, would imply you have some power over them to do it, you don't.

Your bit about giving 24 hours notice, this is the law anyway, so hardly generous.

Any reference based on something outside of the contractual terms is liable to be a defemation of character and could end up with you in court. In any case as a landlord I would be mad if my agency gave bad tenants bad references as it means they will not move out as they won't have found anywhere else to live.

Any deductions from the deposit based on your check out report should be based on facts not based on your opinion of the tenant.

Rednax

ViolaLass wrote: »

True, but as an LL in another thread recently discovered, all that does is stop the tenant leaving the property and backfires for all concerned.

Fair point.

OP, just because I said I can write a reference that puts off future landlords doesn't mean an agent can lie on it. A reference saying "the sink wasn't quite as clean as when they moved in" isn't going to put many future landlords off, but "they obstructed viewings so I couldn't sell/re-let my property and it cost me a large amount of lost rent in a vacant period" probably will.

kiddy_guy

misspickle wrote: »

Always accommodate the landlords. Then come up with a bostin reason to leave
References in this day and age are crucial. Stuff the law! In my book its about doing whatever you have to do to survive.
Once you start burning bridges in this game your stuffed if your a long term renter.
And the law wont be there to wipe your backside when your out on your ear.
It depends on the market but if you've got several people going for a good property then
I'm pretty sure the LL won't be wasting time on someone who is a risk in any way shape or form.
Good tenants attract good landlords. And vice versa.
NEVER rock the boat. Unless you have shed loads of money

However as the tenant plans to leave to move home AND the landlord cannot force the tenant out until May when they plan to leave in any case there's no need for either a reference or for the OP to accommodate anything.

Even once the tenancy has expired it will take a section 21, court and bailiffs to remove the tenant, probably after 6months.

Some of your assertions, whilst noble are just simply pie in the sky. Good tenants and bad landlords and vice versa do happen. Much of it is luck and location.

However I'm bemused why the OP would need shed loads of money even if they did rock the boat ? :-)

kiss_me_now9

kiddy_guy wrote: »

However as the tenant plans to leave to move home AND the landlord cannot force the tenant out until May when they plan to leave in any case there's no need for either a reference or for the OP to accommodate anything.

Even once the tenancy has expired it will take a section 21, court and bailiffs to remove the tenant, probably after 6months.

Some of your assertions, whilst noble are just simply pie in the sky. Good tenants and bad landlords and vice versa do happen. Much of it is luck and location.

However I'm bemused why the OP would need shed loads of money even if they did rock the boat ? :-)

My mum did say I should just squat there for a bit, ahah

I wasn't actually planning to leave - my ex definitely is, but I was hoping to move into another job role that might make it manageable as a one person place. I have basically been told now though that they will be serving us notice at some point soon (I imagine a month before our tenancy ends...) so I don't have a choice. Which is a shame, because it's a nice place.

I'm a bit bummed about the whole affair tbh - we only moved here because my ex didn't want to stay in our old flat, which was privately rented. Our old landlords were great and I would've stayed if I had had my way. Sigh.

Rednax

pyueck wrote: »

...
I completely agree in most circumstances compromise on both parts works best and allowing viewings should be no problem.

When you say 'expect' I think you should re-phrase to something like, I am grateful if the tenant allows etc..., I would never expect to be allowed to go into a tenants home and don't think this sends the right tone to an amicable relationship.
...
You can certainly ask a tenant to clean up, however they are under no obligation to do it. It is their home and they can live as they like while they are paying the rent. Your bit about 'giving them a weekend' etc, would imply you have some power over them to do it, you don't.

Your bit about giving 24 hours notice, this is the law anyway, so hardly generous.

Any reference based on something outside of the contractual terms is liable to be a defemation of character and could end up with you in court. In any case as a landlord I would be mad if my agency gave bad tenants bad references as it means they will not move out as they won't have found anywhere else to live.

Any deductions from the deposit based on your check out report should be based on facts not based on your opinion of the tenant.

While I would not use the term 'expect' when speaking to the current tenant (you are quite correct, it comes across as pushy and rude), I stated that here for ease of reference.

Sorry, I did not underline at least in my last post when talking about giving notice for viewings. In most cases it is several days.

However, again you are getting into the 'I'm not obliged to do this or that'. I can't oblige a tenant to tidy up but there can be other consequences to a tenant if they are difficult. It is far better for everyone to work together rather than following certain advice to be as difficult as possible. To be clear, I am no-way condoning how the letting agent in the OP's situation is behaving, but do suggest reaching an amicable arrangement if possible.

As I put in my last reply, I would never lie in a reference, and I would never refer to a tenants character, I would simply state the facts. They would be completely true and would state a tenant's actions, I doubt after reading many future landlords would be happy with them.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

OP I'm going to give it to you straight - you're coming across as a complete pushover. These people have taken the !!!! completely - when I was a tenant I was always polite and compliant up to a point, but if I'd been treated the way you have there would be no way anyone would be coming into the flat I'm paying to occupy until I'd left.

pyueck

Rednax wrote: »

While I would not use the term 'expect' when speaking to the current tenant (you are quite correct, it comes across as pushy and rude), I stated that here for ease of reference.

Sorry, I did not underline at least in my last post when talking about giving notice for viewings. In most cases it is several days.

However, again you are getting into the 'I'm not obliged to do this or that'. I can't oblige a tenant to tidy up but there can be other consequences to a tenant if they are difficult. It is far better for everyone to work together rather than following certain advice to be as difficult as possible. To be clear, I am no-way condoning how the letting agent in the OP's situation is behaving, but do suggest reaching an amicable arrangement if possible.

As I put in my last reply, I would never lie in a reference, and I would never refer to a tenants character, I would simply state the facts. They would be completely true and would state a tenant's actions, I doubt after reading many future landlords would be happy with them.

Thanks for coming back, I think in the main we agree the best way forward is for both parties to be reasonable, treat the other side with respect (remembering it is somebodies home) and keep a good relationship.

I do think a landlord/agent using the reference as a 'consequence' is dangerous for two reasons. Firstly saying anything negative about somebody else creates a whole heap of tension, possible legal action and who knows what that will end up with. Secondly if you make the tenant be unable to get a new home then they will not move out. You can end up with new tenants not able to move in, having to go to court, rent arrears, uncertainty about when you will get possession of the property etc which really is in nobodies interest.

Personally if I have a bad tenant, best for them to just get out my life, no interest in ruining the rest of theirs as normally it comes back to bite.

Rednax

pyueck wrote: »

Thanks for coming back, I think in the main we agree the best way forward is for both parties to be reasonable, treat the other side with respect (remembering it is somebodies home) and keep a good relationship.

I do think a landlord/agent using the reference as a 'consequence' is dangerous for two reasons. Firstly saying anything negative about somebody else creates a whole heap of tension, possible legal action and who knows what that will end up with. Secondly if you make the tenant be unable to get a new home then they will not move out. You can end up with new tenants not able to move in, having to go to court, rent arrears, uncertainty about when you will get possession of the property etc which really is in nobodies interest.

Personally if I have a bad tenant, best for them to just get out my life, no interest in ruining the rest of theirs as normally it comes back to bite.

Yes, I completely agree that any tenant should be treated with respect and it should always be remembered that it is their home that they (hopefully) have always paid rent for. However, I am never concerned with 'tension' or legal action as I know I have been more than fair with the tenant and had not done anything wrong.

You are correct on the issue that with a 'bad' reference the tenant may stay put. However there are countless other ways that a tenant will want a lettings agent 'on side', whether it is doing them a favour and moving back the day they move out (regular occurrence), renting another place through me in the future, not tying up their deposit for months in a dispute via the deposit scheme (don't have many but one currently has been running for 6 months - and the tenant has seen none of their deposit back in that time) whether or not the dispute is justified etc etc

pyueck

Rednax wrote: »

Yes, I completely agree that any tenant should be treated with respect and it should always be remembered that it is their home that they (hopefully) have always paid rent for. However, I am never concerned with 'tension' or legal action as I know I have been more than fair with the tenant and had not done anything wrong.

You are correct on the issue that with a 'bad' reference the tenant may stay put. However there are countless other ways that a tenant will want a lettings agent 'on side', whether it is doing them a favour and moving back the day they move out (regular occurrence), renting another place through me in the future, not tying up their deposit for months in a dispute via the deposit scheme (don't have many but one currently has been running for 6 months - and the tenant has seen none of their deposit back in that time) whether or not the dispute is justified etc etc

A good relationship is in everybodies interest. However a deposit deduction should only be based on facts and not based on anything else.

In any case a deposit dispute is ultimately the landlords liability not the agencies. As a landlord, I would have no interest in being in a dispute for 6 months, I like a quiet life really.

For me winding people up is not my cup of tea, I don't like bad tenants as much as the next person, but I find it is in my interest to move on once they are out, not let it hang over me with disputes and angry ex tenants haunting me.