Paypal advice please

tootzsax

I teach privately from home. Until today, I've had a paypal link on my website where students and parents can purchase lessons. In 15 years, I've not had an issue.
After giving a block of ten lessons, a student's parent has now issued a "significantly not as described" complaint because they messed up the time of one of their lessons so are claiming they didn't get their moneys worth. All the money for all of the lessons has been taken back by paypal and held with a view to a refund. I can't prove the kid took the lessons and they can't prove that she didn't, but I am very anxious because I now find out that paypal usually don't bother to investigate these things and side with the buyer.

Any advice much appreciated…hindsight… not so much

martindow

I can't help you with the specific problem, but Paypal experts are on the Ebay board. It may be worth asking for this thread to be transferred there.

edit - I see it's already there

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5178292

RMS2

Letter before action, telling them you intend to issue a county court summons and make sure you follow it up and issue it, unless they back down and close the case.


You're right, ebay/Paypal don't tend to look much at cases and have a tendency to side with the buyer, who they see as their customer, even though it's you that pay the commission charge.


Fortunately, judges look at the facts and do not pre-judge cases.

RFW

I'm not sure how Paypal works with non-physical items.

I'd call Paypal (who are usually quite good over the phone) and explain.

It would depend how the 'item' was sold. If it was sold as lessons and you have some kind of paperwork you can upload this may help your case.

If they did refund then the advice by RMS2 is the route you'd need to take.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Don't think OP can start a small claims until they've suffered a loss.

pinkshoes

I would PHONE paypal, and explain that the money was for a service not goods, and the buyer has already received the service,of which they failed to turn up (?) to once session.

If they end up refunding the "buyer", you will then need to send them a letter before action, detailing the times all the lessons took place, and give them 14 days to pay before you take them to court for the money.

theonlywayisup

Paypal's policy is very clear, much more so than ebay.

They don't side with any one party per-se. They abide by their rules.

Lessons are an intangible service, neither intangible items or services given are covered.

Ring Paypal, don't rely on the case. Ring and quote section 7 of their policy regarding buyer protection. Ask why the case was allowed to be opened and ask them to close it with immediate effect, in your favour.

Here is the relevant part you should quote:

7.3 Ineligible Items. PayPal Buyer Protection only applies to PayPal payments for certain tangible, physical goods. Payments for the following are not eligible for reimbursement under PayPal Buyer Protection:

Intangible items, including Digital Goods (subject to exceptions as listed in Section 7.6)
Services
Real estate
Businesses (when you buy a business)
Vehicles, including motorcycles, caravans, aircrafts and boats
Custom made items with SNAD issues
Travel tickets, including airline flight tickets
Items that violate PayPal's Acceptable Use Policy
Purchases made on eBay that violate eBay's Prohibited or Restricted Items Policy
Items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected on your behalf, including at a retail point of sale
Industrial machinery used in manufacturing
Items equivalent to cash, including prepaid or gift cards
Personal Payments
Even if your payment is not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection, you can file a Dispute and resolve the issue directly with the Seller, however, PayPal will not find in your favor if you escalate a Dispute to a Claim when an item is not eligible for PayPal Buyer Protection.

RMS2

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Paypal's policy is very clear, much more so than ebay.

They don't side with any one party per-se. They abide by their rules.

Lessons are an intangible service, neither intangible items or services given are covered.

Ring Paypal, don't rely on the case. Ring and quote section 7 of their policy regarding buyer protection. Ask why the case was allowed to be opened and ask them to close it with immediate effect, in your favour.

Here is the relevant part you should quote:

You trip yourself up, suggesting that Paypal are straight down the line, confirm that this isn't covered.


Yet wonder why Paypal have covered it and put the money on hold and tell the OP to tell them to put it back, close the case and ask them what they are playing at.


Methinks Paypal aren't as straight down the line as you think.

theonlywayisup

RMS2 wrote: »

You trip yourself up, suggesting that Paypal are straight down the line, confirm that this isn't covered.


Yet wonder why Paypal have covered it and put the money on hold and tell the OP to tell them to put it back, close the case and ask them what they are playing at.


Methinks Paypal aren't as straight down the line as you think.

I do not trip myself up. Did I say I wondered at the money being on hold?

Paypal will allow almost any case to be opened. But, their policies are clear. It is only at the intervention of an agent that the case will be seen by a human and it can be ascertained that xyz is not covered.

All the OP needs to do is ring and get an agent to view the case.

PDC

As both a buyer and a seller I've always found PayPal pretty fair to the facts given to them. Though as pointed out above if what you are doing is not 'covered' by them then you may be in trouble.

If you can document any correspondence or evidence of attendance to PayPal then that may be of help in your case.

Have had an occasion where someone who had opened a claim tied themselves up in knots sending emails about an issue. On providing copies of those to PayPal, I guess, they could see that the issue wasn't as the claim has said.

Perhaps in future a signature from the parent following each lesson to confirm attendance and that they are happy with the service given.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

theonlywayisup wrote: »

Paypal's policy is very clear, much more so than ebay.

They don't side with any one party per-se. They abide by their rules.

Lessons are an intangible service, neither intangible items or services given are covered.

Ring Paypal, don't rely on the case. Ring and quote section 7 of their policy regarding buyer protection. Ask why the case was allowed to be opened and ask them to close it with immediate effect, in your favour.

Here is the relevant part you should quote:

Are you looking at the .com site?

The UK UA says:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full?locale.x=en_GB#13

Your purchase is an eligible purchase. Purchases of most goods and services are eligible, except for purchases of the following :

1. and, unless you are purchasing as a registered UK resident user of PayPal:
2. intangible items (including, without limitation, rights of access to digital content and other licences) ;