Forced to work out notice with no work to do

silvercar

Posting for a friend.

Only been in post a year and a half and had notice of redundancy. They are being required to work out 3 months notice, even though there is no work to do. This is because the team leader has no budget to pay people off but the organisation centrally can carry on paying people. (Makes no sense I know.) He is trying to negotiate on this and at the moment it is noted as a grievance.

Looks like friend has found a fixed term contract, but if he gets it they will need him to start in 3 weeks time - he is only 2 weeks into the 3 month notice period.

If push came to shove, what would be the repercussions of just walking out? Would the old firm be obliged to pay out holiday pay accrued but not taken?

Takeaway_Addict

silvercar wrote: »

Posting for a friend.

Only been in post a year and a half and had notice of redundancy. They are being required to work out 3 months notice, even though there is no work to do. This is because the team leader has no budget to pay people off but the organisation centrally can carry on paying people. (Makes no sense I know.) He is trying to negotiate on this and at the moment it is noted as a grievance.

Looks like friend has found a fixed term contract, but if he gets it they will need him to start in 3 weeks time - he is only 2 weeks into the 3 month notice period.

If push came to shove, what would be the repercussions of just walking out? Would the old firm be obliged to pay out holiday pay accrued but not taken?

Yes, the repercussions are possibly a bad reference and being sued for breach of contract (though unlikely)

Chrisblue1962

If they must see out their contract, see if their boss will let them work on their CV, apply for other jobs, do some online training, give them web access, even use the time to brush / swot up on areas of their particular trade / profession where they feel or know their skills / knowlege are a bit weak, research other possible fields / areas of employment, etc

Big Hint: Do a SWOT analysis of themselves and their current situation.

SWOT Analysis :

• Strengths
• Weknesses
• Oppotunities
• Threats

They may not want to do these tasks / exercises but better to do them now whilst they have the time rather when they are out of work and are in need of new employment i.e. Hit the ground running. Good Luck to your friend .

getmore4less

Why not offer to leave with three weeks notice?

win win as they say

the friends gets to leave and the company saves money

silvercar

getmore4less wrote: »

Why not offer to leave with three weeks notice?

win win as they say

the friends gets to leave and the company saves money

I think he wants to be paid out for at least some of the time.

dori2o

As your friend has not been there for more than 2 years he has no statutory entitlement to redundancy pay, he would only be entitled to it if it is contractual and payable within the initial 2 year statutory period..

The first thing I would do is find out whether or not the employer is going to pay him any redundancy if he is selected.

If they are going to give him a redundancy payment then its obviously up to him whether or not the amount he would get is worthwhile staying the extra 3 months for. If it's not worth staying for then he hands in his notice and starts the new job.

If he will receive redundancy pay and it is worth it to him, then he might consider speaking to the employer and making an offer to volunteer to be made redundant. It could even benefit the employer as they would have no requirement to pay him the full 3 months salary if he does not stay, and it's one person off the books immediately.

If he has a job offer now, how he has to consider whether it is better to take that job and remain in work, or wait it out for 3 months and hope that another opportunity comes along at the time.

Personally I'd take the job.

How much redundancy is he looking at? As a guide the statutory amounts for those who have been employed by a company for 2 years r more are as follows:

• half a week’s pay for each full year you were under 22
• 1 week’s pay for each full year you were 22 or older, but under 41
• 1 and half week’s pay for each full year you were 41 or older

Length of service is capped at 20 years and weekly pay is capped at £464. The maximum amount of statutory redundancy pay is £13,920.


OObviously this may change depending on whether his contract specifies alternative terms

Another_not_new_user

silvercar wrote: »

I think he wants to be paid out for at least some of the time.

There is a really short answer to this - no. If he isn't working his notice then he doesn't get paid. Full stop. He's lucky to have found another job. But putting in a grievance that he must work his notice (the law!) isn't likely to enamour his employers towards making his life easier.

dori2o

Another_not_new_user wrote: »

There is a really short answer to this - no. If he isn't working his notice then he doesn't get paid. Full stop. He's lucky to have found another job. But putting in a grievance that he must work his notice (the law!) isn't likely to enamour his employers towards making his life easier.

Would you like to quote this Law which states you must work the full notice period?

Both sides are entitled to a notice period but that doesn't mean it has to be worked.

The 3 months (90 days) notice period for redundancy (which was actually cut to 45 days back in 2012) isn't the same as giving notice of your intention t leave, it is a consultation period where both sides would usually come to an agreement on the numbers of people being made redundant and the process for redundancy to ensure that it is fair, look at ways to avoid redundancy, look at alternatives such as relocation (if possible) or retraining etc..

In the case where the entire business is closing down the 45 days notice is a mere formality that the employer has to go through, but there is no LAW that states that each employee must work each and every day of that notice. In fact in the case of redundancy there is no requirement to give any more than the contractual amount.

In the case of a business that is closing down I would suggest it is highly unlikely that the business would look to sue for breach of contract even if you did just walk out, especially as the OP claims that there is no work to do. Exactly what loss will the employer have suffered in this case?

With regards to what he is due to be paid if he does leave of his own accord, he needs to check his employment contract to see if it contains a PILON clause (Pay In Lieu of Notice), but again that notice will not be the 45 days, it will be whatever is stated under notice periods in the contract.

In my experience I have never known an employer a) not permit someone to volunteer for redundancy (but only where the business is not closing for good), or b) allow them to leave before their notice period is up where there is the opportunity for that person has a clear offer of employment.

getmore4less

It is the other way round, there is no laws that say a company have to pay you if you don't turn up for work(want to leave early).

It is simple if you want to leave early then you must negotiate and expect that giving up notice pay and any redundancy payments may be one of the conditions of letting you go.

Counter notice can be used in some cases but not relevant here as the employee would have to wait for the full contractual notice less 1 week to even use it.

Consultation makes little difference in practice(if you want to leave) and may not even be relevant as extended 30/45 days only applies if there are significant numbers 10/100.

If you want to leave then you are only entitled to be paid for the notice you are prepared to give.

silvercar

Thank you for your responses.

He is definitely being made redundant, he took the job to do work in a particular area that is no longer required. There is no work for him to do, but the company is not shutting down. He could move across to a different area but there are no vacancies there at the moment so he is twiddling his thumbs (and in any case would require some training so isn't an option for working out his notice).
......
part removed to protect identity....

getmore4less

I would look at the reason behind the change in position.

Is it because they don't have the cash to pay them off an think they have to have them work notice/garden leave to be able to pay them.

The alternative is they terminate and make the payout in instalments

OR

They have realised that people will be looking and get offered work and want to leave early and it will save money.

OR

some other reason.
(eg if they are trying to replace the work/contract having people ready to start may be worth the cost of having them hanging around)

Understand the motivation is the way forward with negotiations and compromise.

Going in with a grievance may have been a bit premature especially with the short timescales they are looking to leave.