Tesla to unveil home storage batteries

System

Andy_WSM wrote: »

That's a great price. I'd be tempted myself to move to a Zoe at that! I've looked before, but it was just a tad expensive for what it is.

So where's the offer? I can't find it on the Renault site!

I'd only be looking for around a 5,000 mile a year deal, so the cheaper battery rental package which covers 7.5k a year I think.

Am I right in saying that the Zoe has the variable rate charge system, so if I wanted to use excess PV I can set it to charge at say 1.5kWh / 2kWh instead of the full 7kWh that the charger would provide if required to?

I think it is this one:

http://www.dsg-renault.co.uk/model.php?type=cars&model=zoe

Andy_WSM

Hengus wrote: »

I think it is this one:

http://www.dsg-renault.co.uk/model.php?type=cars&model=zoe

Thanks for that. Been having a read. Very interesting

One thing for me is that I couldn't have any more than a 16A charging point in my garage, due to a lack of supply capacity out there. No way of upgrading the cable without major works either - and likely cost prohibitive due to the distance from the main fuseboard.

I could probably get the fast charger installed on the driveway for "just in case" and get a 16A charger installed in the garage at extra cost for overnight charging.

System

Andy_WSM wrote: »

Thanks for that. Been having a read. Very interesting

One thing for me is that I couldn't have any more than a 16A charging point in my garage, due to a lack of supply capacity out there. No way of upgrading the cable without major works either - and likely cost prohibitive due to the distance from the main fuseboard.

I could probably get the fast charger installed on the driveway for "just in case" and get a 16A charger installed in the garage at extra cost for overnight charging.

The charging rates of EVs are normally determined by the car's inbuilt charger as what goes on the wall is nothing more than an electrical supply. I am not that familiar with the Zoe but my car comes with what is known as a Standard EVSE on a 3-pin plug (sometimes known as an occasional use charger). Via the car's computer, I can set the charging rate at 6, 9 or 12 amps. Most manufacturers have a warning about these cables as they have no idea about the quality of the wiring that they will be connected to. Similarly, they state 'no extension cables' should be used. My wiring is fine so I tend to leave it set on 6 amps to fit in with my 2.15kWp solar array. I also have a 32 amp ROLEC charger which was installed free and I have used once. The charging rate can also be reduced via the computer. Locally, there are 6 7kW posts (32 amp) which provide free charging but 50p/hour parking. It follows that I should be able to get a full charge for nothing or for about £2 max on std rates using the ROLEC. There are also rapid chargers around the country which will give a 0 to 80% in 20 minutes which cost nothing (Ecotricity) to £4.50 for 45 mins (Chargemaster). Lots of useful information, and friendly help, on Speakev.com.

Sterlingtimes

Hengus wrote: »

This is typical of what is around at the moment:

'we are now offering the Zoe Dynamique Intens on a 2yr PCP @ 5k miles per annum for £69 a month with no deposit - obviously the battery rental is on top of that, worth noting that Renault UK have increased this since 1st May so now starts from £45 a month.'

So if we assume that the average car will do 50mpg at £1.20 per litre then the saving in petrol is 100*4.54*1.20 or £545 per year. You would also save the road fund tax; get lower servicing costs and lower insurance. Putting the additional savings to one side, then even with PCP fees and battery hire totalling £114 per month, the cost to you per month is £114 -£45 or £69 per month for a new car.

PV Solar charging for my car (my car is on charge at the moment), is giving me pretty well free motoring. My town also has free 7kW chargers in a public car park and Ecotricity offer free rapid charging on motorways. I own my car and it has an 8 year/100000 mile battery warranty (not less than 70% charge at 8 years). Currently, new EVs attract a £5000 grant. My guess is that this will disappear very soon - a bit like reducing FITs.

The above will not work for everybody but looking at the SpeakEV.com website there are many business car users that are switching to EVs to reduce costs and BiK.

Thank you, Hengus, for taking the time to post. That's a good price that I cannot see replicated elsewhere. This doesn't really work for me. My monthly petrol cost would broadly equal the price of the battery hire so there's no saving. My last car purchase was an Fiesta Ecoboost: fuel economy far lower than published. I want to buy eco-friendly but not where the published figures are contrived. New car not due for over a year so there's time for the economics to improve.

zeupater

Sterlingtimes wrote: »

Thank you, Hengus, for taking the time to post. That's a good price that I cannot see replicated elsewhere. This doesn't really work for me. My monthly petrol cost would broadly equal the price of the battery hire so there's no saving. My last car purchase was an Fiesta Ecoboost: fuel economy far lower than published. I want to buy eco-friendly but not where the published figures are contrived. New car not due for over a year so there's time for the economics to improve.

Hi ST

... possibly a brief read through this discussion will help clarify what's missing ... ( http://myrenaultzoe.com/index.php/topic/new-battery-rentals/ )

HTH
Z

Cardew

zeupater wrote: »

..... :rotfl:... :rotfl:... :rotfl:... :rotfl:

... Thanks, really made me laugh .... MrsZ's will cost more over the life of the vehicle than any comparable sized non-premium brand standard engine vehicle and this would almost certainly be the case for almost everyone else ....


EVs at the moment are simply a lifestyle choice for those of us who are fortunate enough to afford to make it, however we attempt to justify it, and that will be the case until the 'whole life' cost comes into line with standard mass-production equivalent offerings
HTH
Z

Agree completely. I have never seen any serious justification of an EV on economic grounds other than the early days when EVs were exempt the Inner London Congestion Charge

Even with the £5k government grant an EV is around £7k to £10k more than a similar petrol driven car. - surely no 'Green' enthusiast would have a diesel.;)

Accepting Hengus' figure of petrol car costs for 5k miles as £545pa that would take 14 years plus to recover the capital costs. More if you take into account the lost interest on that £7k to £10k

Then add some costs for charging the batteries, even with Economy 7 and charging mostly in the 7 hours, how much would that cost for 5k miles? £100??. For some people the additional costs for the 17 hours on an Economy 7 tariff would make that option a non-starter.

The cost of RFL, certainly for vehicles of the size of a ZOE, would never normally exceed £30 pa - a 122BHP VW Golf automatic is £30 - and several are zero rated.

I wouldn't have thought insurance on an EV, costing much more than a similar petrol model, would be cheaper?

Lastly with a real range of 60 to 100 miles, it wouldn't be suitable as the single car for most households.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

Agree completely. I have never seen any serious justification of an EV on economic grounds other than the early days when EVs were exempt the Inner London Congestion Charge

Even with the £5k government grant an EV is around £7k to £10k more than a similar petrol driven car. - surely no 'Green' enthusiast would have a diesel.;)

Accepting Hengus' figure of petrol car costs for 5k miles as £545pa that would take 14 years plus to recover the capital costs. More if you take into account the lost interest on that £7k to £10k

Then add some costs for charging the batteries, even with Economy 7 and charging mostly in the 7 hours, how much would that cost for 5k miles? £100??. For some people the additional costs for the 17 hours on an Economy 7 tariff would make that option a non-starter.

The cost of RFL, certainly for vehicles of the size of a ZOE, would never normally exceed £30 pa - a 122BHP VW Golf automatic is £30 - and several are zero rated.

I wouldn't have thought insurance on an EV, costing much more than a similar petrol model, would be cheaper?

Lastly with a real range of 60 to 100 miles, it wouldn't be suitable as the single car for most households.

Hi

Better way to look at it is simply to compare the £545/year fuel cost for 5000miles with the straight battery lease cost which now looks like £70/month for <7500mile/pa on a 3year contract ... that's £840/year before paying for any electricity to actually make the thing move or access to charging points etc ....

Regarding RFL .... well that was worth a lot towards MrsZ's decision when looking around - a direct replacement would have been ~£900 in year1 and ~£500pa after that .... :eek:

HTH
Z

Cardew

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Better way to look at it is simply to compare the £545/year fuel cost for 5000miles with the straight battery lease cost which now looks like £70/month for <7500mile/pa on a 3year contract ... that's £840/year before paying for any electricity to actually make the thing move or access to charging points etc ....

Regarding RFL .... well that was worth a lot towards MrsZ's decision when looking around - a direct replacement would have been ~£900 in year1 and ~£500pa after that .... :eek:

HTH
Z

Agreed except in the case where someone has bought the car c/w batteries outright - like Hengus.


As for RFL MrsZ could have made exactly the same saving if she had moved to a petrol vehicle the size of a ZOE - plenty with a £0 RFL or £20.

zeupater

Cardew wrote: »

.... As for RFL MrsZ could have made exactly the same saving if she had moved to a petrol vehicle the size of a ZOE - plenty with a £0 RFL or £20.

Hi

... :rotfl: .... fat chance of getting her to do that ... After aluminium sheds on wheels since the mid '90's and time glued to something a little older but much more exotic (think 4.2l, smelling of polishes, oil, petrol & damp cotton - but no cobwebs ) it was hard enough to get her to consider anything which could go anywhere near saving the planet ... what swayed it in the end was a compromise to look at 'something completely different' ... ended up with something akin to a cross between Star-Trek & Top-Gun - it's even got a HUD, but she really missed out on the Phasers or Sidewinders and the total lack of Warp-Speed ....

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

I've been reading loads of articles on the Tesla battery offering, but they tend to be a little too positive, or too negative. But I thought this Bloomberg article was pretty good.

The video explains the idea and future potential, whilst the article explains the problems at the moment, and what is needed.

Tesla's New Battery Doesn't Work That Well With Solar

So we need continued development of the technology, development of tech to work with it, and costs to keep falling. All looks promising, but first you need a market to get things rolling. The article mentions Hawaii, and that reminded me of another article where the mix of solar generation and high leccy prices, suggests that for Hawaii and Australia the current battery offerings may just be economically viable now.

Tesla battery storage will accelerate exit of coal generators

Should make the next 5 years interesting as we watch what happens.

Mart.