Tesla to unveil home storage batteries

silverwhistle

zeupater wrote: »

if this 400W is being used to power a 300W plasma TV and a 100W bulb then wouldn't it be better to invest in a £300 LED TV and a £5LED bulb? -

I'm inclined to agree with you on this, and a story I've already told on here about a local distribution engineer only half joking when he said an alternative solution to a new substation was giving CF bulbs to customers around a new housing estate..

Like in all these technical fixes the influence of redundancy and numbers comes into play. For mine and many other's circumstances EVs are just not suitable, and for those of us who rely on the second hand market even more so. I only got rid of my last two cars at 12 years old as I was moving countries (RHD/LHD) in each case and it wasn't worth keeping them. I think it'll be a long time before EV numbers get to a level where it is worth pursuing as a technical solution.

Martyn1981

silverwhistle wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree with you on this, and a story I've already told on here about a local distribution engineer only half joking when he said an alternative solution to a new substation was giving CF bulbs to customers around a new housing estate..

Just to point out what I posted on an LED thread this week, just bought some 60W equivalent LED bulbs for £2 each. So even the holdouts complaining about CFL's taking a few seconds to warm up, are now running out of excuses.

Mart.

Martyn1981

Just realised, all this chat about EV's and I completely forgot (re thread title) to mention that Tesla have mentioned (teased!) the launch of their version 2 in the summer.

Little to no info as yet.

Tesla Powerwall 2: What is it and when will it be available?

Mart.

PS Or it has been mentioned and I'm going mad(der).

michaels

Is there any info out there on how battery manufacture costs compare from the Tesla factory?

Martyn1981

michaels wrote: »

Is there any info out there on how battery manufacture costs compare from the Tesla factory?

I can't recall any definite info, but I think there was speculation that the price of Li-ion batts could fall around 30% when the Tesla Gigafactory becomes operational.

This is because that single factory was* to produce more batts than all the existing Li-ion factories put together.

*However, since then, and despite the factory still being under construction, they've already announced 2 increases in the final size of the factory as demand keeps growing.

Mart.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Interesting stuff Z, I suspect reality will be somewhere between my optimistic view and your pessimistic view, though hopefully both opinions are within the main body of the bell curve.

I'd like to see some sort of subsidy support for domestic batts, shared across households, leccy suppliers, DNO's and govt, but larger systems are cheaper, so without a domestic PV contribution, I'd expect leccy suppliers and DNO's to do their own larger scale systems.

But ..... the thought of those huge batteries sitting in driveways .... it's very tempting!

By huge I should explain that when I read about the big batts the off-gridders have, they seem to be in the 25kWh to 60kWh range, but these are usually lead acid, so at 50% DoD are not that much bigger than a Leaf (24kWh or 30kWh) Li-ion that can be used happily to a safer depth say 80% DoD.


Myself and Wifey can't really justify a second car, but if we did get one, I'd love an EV. Perhaps park it up for a few days a week when generation is really high, but obviously expect most charge from the grid, and always have the other car for emergencies (range anxiety).

Mart.

Hi

I don't really think that I've been pessimistic on this, just realistic. Automotive manufacturers are always going to be conscious of the energy/weight ratio and therefore the batteries will likely be far more expensive than domestic equivalents in the long run. Technologies such as Aquion's AHI have a lower energy density than lithium based cells, but very interesting possibilities for cheap domestic scale storage if space isn't a major issue - a couple of stacks (or even a pallet load) would easily sit in the corner of our garage, but I'd really need to see the results of some long-term trials and the inevitable massive price reductions first ...

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

Z. If you're happy giving up some space in your garage, then flow batteries are getting smaller too, and domestic versions on their way.

Redflow set to take on Tesla in home battery market

Interesting to follow all this, but doubt I'll be getting my hands on anything this decade.

Mart.

zeupater

Martyn1981 wrote: »

Z. If you're happy giving up some space in your garage, then flow batteries are getting smaller too, and domestic versions on their way.

Redflow set to take on Tesla in home battery market

Interesting to follow all this, but doubt I'll be getting my hands on anything this decade.

Mart.

Interesting alternative, but doesn't look to be as sustainable as 'saltwater' batteries in the long run. As for price movement, considering the ready availability and low cost of non-hazardous materials the scalability of manufacture of the AHI type technology on a global basis is almost unlimited, therefore economies of scale and related price movement can be expected to be fast and huge.

I can certainly see the AHI solution being taken up in quickly in areas where both the environmental performance stability and low maintenance would be advantageous and space isn't an issue - particularly so in areas of the world where manufacturing plant could be commissioned relatively quickly for local supply. Of course, in high density populated areas the potential for domestic-scale storage may well exclude these technologies, with the energy density of lithium based storage coming into play (dare I even say EV!), however, the competition provided by these lower energy density, less technically advanced solutions will certainly have a downward pressure on all other storage technologies and should therefore be welcomed by all potential buyers ....

HTH
Z

Martyn1981

Yes, I admit this isn't 'exactly' as per the thread title, and relates to the commercial scale Tesla Powerpack, not the domestic Powerwall, but I thought it was interesting anyway:-

SolarCity picks Tesla for 52MWh of dispatchable solar-plus-storage in Hawaii

SolarCity has chosen Tesla to supply a 52MWh utility-scale energy storage system, which will make the output of a solar farm in Hawaii dispatchable.

The project, on the island of Kauai, will help local utility Kaua'i Island Utility Cooperative (KIUC) meet evening peak demand which takes place from 5pm to 10pm each night. It will be located at a 12MW solar farm, which presently supplies around 5% of the island’s electricity.

SolarCity’s Kaua’i solar plus storage project to use Tesla batteries

Kaua’i currently meets 17.5% of electric demand with solar PV. This is roughly twice the portion that Italy gets, as the leading nation for integration of high levels of solar. SolarCity expects to complete its solar and storage project by the end of 2016, and by 2018 KIUC expects to be meeting 25% of demand with solar PV.

Mart.

tunnel

Latest news from my installer. I'm guessing anyone who's used them for an install will be getting the email about battery back-up, it's pretty much what's on their "news" page.
Interestingly they now offer a 4kWp system for under £4k
http://www.ctsrenewables.co.uk/News.aspx
Hmmmm, now how do I tell the wife about the battery backup that will be available within "the next few weeks"?