Boiler replacement - with a tank? Condensing vs not

[Deleted User]

Hello!

I have a boiler which is about 10 years old (Vokera) and non-condensing - it heats the house up well (34kW, its massive and the house is 90years old with around 160sqm space and high ceilings) but it's pretty poor with the hot water upstairs. I have a LOT of loft and cellar space so a tank is not an issue.

I was thinking about and researching various options, what do you guys think about this?

I have parts to my questions:

I. About the hot water

1. Leave the boiler alone and get a hot water tank.

2. Get a new boiler, but a non-combi boiler with a tank.

3. Solar hot water heating?

4. Will a pump do anything?


II. Boiler choice

1. I read that non-condensing boilers are better as they last longer http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-1710224/Are-condensing-boilers-a-waste-of-money.html

2. I've also read that if you oversize your boiler you'll just be wasting lots of heat (but how?? and how to reduce wastage? should I keep most trv's on then?) Otherwise there will be nothing stopping me from getting one of those 45kW monsters for good hot water flow.

Thanks for reading all that.

Help much appreciated!

Seronera

You can't legally fit a non condensing boiler unless you are one of the permitted exceptions. No point anyway as its not the condensing bit that fails, its the poxy electronics and hydroblocks that you would get in any new boiler condensing or non condensing.

1) If the boiler is working OK why change the boiler?

2) Yes its possible to convert a combi to power heating and HW cylinder using diverter valves. You need to keep the old HW system active though just via one tap.

3) Get a new boiler if old one breaks beyond economic repair. Is it a Vokera Linea Max by any chance?

4) Price Solar HW up by all means. There is nothing to say don't do it if your roof is suitable. You may need a dual coil cylinder

5) A pump usually pumps, though strictly speaking they are not pumps but circulators, so yes its does something

6) If you oversize a boiler its oversized. Of course it will cause problems. You need the correct sized boiler.

7) I'd be interested to know why your hot water is poor upstairs. Being presumably a combi at mains pressure it should be the same all over the house, unless the mains pressure is poor in which case a combi should not have been fitted to start with by whoever did it. Other than that there are a few simply fixable faults that might restore decent hot water. I'd investigate that side first if I were you as it might save you a lot of money/hassle

[Deleted User]

Are Vokera Linea Max a good brand?

Seronera

Deleted_User wrote: »

Are Vokera Linea Max a good brand?

Vokera are probably the best of the Italian makes in my opinion and generally OK. I owned a Linea 28kw Combi for ten years and I only had to overhaul the diverter valve in that time. Others are not so lucky and ignition boxes and sometimes main PCBs(Printed Circuit Boards) do fail. I believe the company has recently changed hands. It was owned by Riello who major in oil burners and they sold Vokera to a German boiler maker called Viessman last year. I have no idea what changes have resulted so far, if any.

Yours is now what you might call 'mature' but spares are still available. It might be wise to start saving pennies for a new boiler sometime in the next five years. I had to take out a couple of Vokera combis where the cost of repair made no sense, even though they were perfectly mendable. It just depends what goes wrong, and what the sums end up looking like.

I suppose in summary I'd say that I'd be happy to have another Vokera even though it might not necessarily be my first choice.

SaveMyMoney_3

I'd go with Vaillant personally as they are a decent make, I've got one at home I had fitted a while ago and it's never caused me any problems at all. It's quiet, warms up the home really well and didn't cost a lot. I didn't get it though a big name firm but from a local heating engineer from stl heating, depends where you are - but I'd get some quotes in - no matter what boiler you choose.

[Deleted User]

Thanks guys.

Btw any opinions on the 'non-condensing is better than condensing' argument? (link above)

Seronera

Deleted_User wrote: »

Thanks guys.

Btw any opinions on the 'non-condensing is better than condensing' argument? (link above)

That article is from 2011 and highlighted poor installation standards where the condensate pipes were freezing. Since then installation guidelines have been updated so that the vast majority of condensate pipes are now run internally and not externally. If there is no alternative to external the old practice of using 22mm pipe is no longer acceptable and you must use 32 or 40mm waste pipe which is far less prone to freezing solid.

That article is therefore largely out of date. My own condensing boiler was installed in 1992 and has saved us a massive amount of money. Its still fine and had had two repairs, one being a fan. The condensate pipes ( mine is 22mm but internal) have blocked three times due to mould growth where it meets the drain, but boiling water and domestos has always cleared it.

I therefore think that article has little validity today, though in years gone by I have literally spent all night unfreezing multiple frozen condensate pipes when I was on callout duty on the social housing contracts I used to work on. They were all modified to prevent a repetition, and installation standards are now better.

As I said, its academic anyway as it is mandatory to fit a condensing boiler unless you are able to demonstrate that specific exceptions apply.