Vendor lied during conveyancing process

TrixA

We completed on our first house purchase in late November. Six weeks after moving in we were burgled, with the burglars gaining access through a ground floor bathroom window and the external patio doors. We have had the insurance assessor round to look at the damage and he suggested that the main reason they were able to get in, through the patio doors in particular, was that they were not installed properly. He was also quite certain that they had been installed within the last couple of years (and suggested a way we can verify by contacting the manufacturer).

As part of the conveyancing process our lawyer requested copies of the FENSA guarantees for installation of the windows and doors. The vendors claimed that they had been installed in 2000, prior to the requirement for guarantees. However it now looks likely that this was a lie. The assessor commented that other windows in the house had been installed earlier and looked properly done, it's just the window and patio doors that were cowboy jobs and these are the ones the burglars targeted.

I'm wondering what the legal situation is and if it is worth pursuing the vendor in any way. We are wondering what else she has lied about. She was thoroughly unpleasant during the sale process and from talking to the police who investigated the burglary it turns out this address is 'known' to them.

Pete9501

Personally, I think life is too short and you would only get worked up about it. Fix the windows and start enjoying life.

maninthestreet

Did you check the FENSA website - you can enter a post code and house number and find out when FENSA certificates were issued for that property. What type of survey did you commission for the property before
buying?

pinkteapot

I don't think the assessor saying "they look newer than that" will be proof enough.

As above, check your address here:
http://www.fensa.co.uk/asp/certificate.asp
to see if recent FENSA certs have been issued.

However, if the owner used a cowboy non-FENSA installer then this won't help.

Unless you can prove the patio doors were installed more recently than claimed, you won't get anywhere. Doesn't hurt to phone or email the manufacturer and ask, but they may well not want to disclose details of when the windows were sold as you weren't their customer (data protection and all that).

TrixA

That FENSA site shows no record of any guarantees related to this house. We have spoken to the supplier of the doors (as identified on the doors) and they say the doors and window are definitely post-2010.

pinkteapot

TrixA wrote: »

That FENSA site shows no record of any guarantees related to this house. We have spoken to the supplier of the doors (as identified on the doors) and they say the doors and window are definitely post-2010.

Can you get this confirmed in writing? A letter rather than an email would be best.

When purchasing, do you have something from your vendor in writing to say that the windows were pre-2000, or was it verbal? You'd need it in writing.

Next step is a chat with your solicitor about what, if anything, you can achieve. Action against the vendor would be for financial losses you've incurred as a result of their 'lies'.

You won't get anything for the fact you've been burgled. There's nothing to say the burglars wouldn't have got in if the windows had been fitted well.

All I can imagine you might possibly have a chance of getting is the cost of the work to correct the installation by a FENSA installer. You need to know how much this work will cost you to know if it's worth the legal costs of pursuing the vendor. The answer is likely to be that it's not worth it unfortunately.

TrixA

pinkteapot wrote: »

Can you get this confirmed in writing? A letter rather than an email would be best.

Think it could be tricky to get written confirmation from the supplier, but if it it came to it I think we could prove it - the supplier said that this model of door was not manufactured prior to 2010.

When purchasing, do you have something from your vendor in writing to say that the windows were pre-2000, or was it verbal? You'd need it in writing.

I have this in writing from my solicitor, which I assume means she had it in writing from their solicitor. It was a specific query our solicitor raised with them.

Next step is a chat with your solicitor about what, if anything, you can achieve. Action against the vendor would be for financial losses you've incurred as a result of their 'lies'.

You won't get anything for the fact you've been burgled. There's nothing to say the burglars wouldn't have got in if the windows had been fitted well.

All I can imagine you might possibly have a chance of getting is the cost of the work to correct the installation by a FENSA installer. You need to know how much this work will cost you to know if it's worth the legal costs of pursuing the vendor. The answer is likely to be that it's not worth it unfortunately.

You're probably right, it just makes me angry that someone would blatantly lie about something like this. There are other structural alterations to the house which the vendor also claimed to have no record for as they were apparently 'historic'. Who knows what other surprises are waiting for us.

fed_up_and_stressed

pinkteapot wrote: »

Can you get this confirmed in writing? A letter rather than an email would be best.

When purchasing, do you have something from your vendor in writing to say that the windows were pre-2000, or was it verbal? You'd need it in writing.

Next step is a chat with your solicitor about what, if anything, you can achieve. Action against the vendor would be for financial losses you've incurred as a result of their 'lies'.

You won't get anything for the fact you've been burgled. There's nothing to say the burglars wouldn't have got in if the windows had been fitted well.

All I can imagine you might possibly have a chance of getting is the cost of the work to correct the installation by a FENSA installer. You need to know how much this work will cost you to know if it's worth the legal costs of pursuing the vendor. The answer is likely to be that it's not worth it unfortunately.

I know in my current property transaction the sellers property information form the vendor has completed specifically asks about fensa certificates and also a specific question about what works have been undertaken since 2000.

OP should check what info the vendor did provide to the solicitors as part of the sale. I know i got sent a copy of this form to review and check i was happy / what enquiries the solicitor raised.

TrixA

fed_up_and_stressed wrote: »

I know in my current property transaction the sellers property information form the vendor has completed specifically asks about fensa certificates and also a specific question about what works have been undertaken since 2000.

OP should check what info the vendor did provide to the solicitors as part of the sale. I know i got sent a copy of this form to review and check i was happy / what enquiries the solicitor raised.

In the PIF form they claimed that the windows and doors were installed in "approx 2002". The next question asked for copies of the relevant permissions or an explanation why none were required and they left this blank. Our solicitor went back to them to ask for the FENSA guarantees which was when they came back and said the work was done in 2000, which I understand was before FENSA guarantees were required.

There was also a question on the PIF asking if the vendor was aware of any work that was unfinished or without all necessary consents to which they answered "no".

Thrugelmir

TrixA wrote: »

I'm wondering what the legal situation is and if it is worth pursuing the vendor in any way.

Unless the vendor committed the burglary. Then the costs of action would appear to outweigh any benefits. When buying any property I've always been conscious of potential security risks and take action soon after moving in. If someone wants to break in they will.

makeyourdaddyproud

Put it all down to experience and move on.

Whether the unit was installed by a Fensa contractor or not will makes no difference to the accessibility to burglars.

I hate UPVC with a passion and I am proud to say my timber doors and windows have stood for 120 years - including 2 burglary attempts.

Don't insurers hate Luddite refuseniks that refuse to upgrade their windows to be accountable to Fensa etc and basterd1se their period properties? And they can do nothing about it!