Loft conversion or not!?

Katawampus

Hi

Hoping somebody can kindly offer me some advice on our current house buying situation (I apologise, it's a long one!)...

We're in the process of buying a terraced house with a loft bedroom on the second floor which seemed perfectly fine and original until our solicitor asked the seller's solicitor to provide the regs certificate for the "loft conversion". They said they had no such thing as the loft was original.

Our solicitor continues to insist the loft was converted to a bedroom at some point due to Google maps showing our house as having a dormer window with next door's having just a Velux style window.

As the solicitors' stand-off was getting us nowhere, we approached next door (the only house in the same style as ours) who showed us their mirror-image set of stairs leading up to the attic bedroom, and explained that at some point many years ago when the roof needed repairs the owners chose to remove the dormer and install a Velux style window, I presume due to costs.

I presume the only way to settle the argument is to have a surveyor visit the property, however if we need to get a cetificate of regularisation I fear it would not be granted as the stairs are pretty scary - the sort that you would only get away with building in Victorian times! I took a few photos and emailed them to our solicitor - I'm awaiting his reply.

So, could anybody suggest what to do next?

Many thanks in advance!

Hedgehog99

How old is the house? Can you find out the name of the builder? Can you get any info on the original planning permission / architect's drawings?

I contacted the builder of my 1990's property & they were very helpful about the loft & fire regulations in my county etc.

Katawampus

Thanks for the quick reply.

I'm told the house is Victorian (just) built in 1901 and a four hour search of our library's archives yielded no plans unfortunately!

Hedgehog99

Hmmmm... 1901 planning permission is beyond my scope of knowledge!

Older properties do seem to be allowed things that new-builds / renovations wouldn't.

All I can add, once you sort out who can give you a concrete answer, is to make sure your eventual buildings & contents insurer is happy - heaven forbid there was a fire, if they then decided the conversion was a later change, they could refuse to pay out if they didn't think the fire safety regs* were appropriately followed.

* quality of stairs to the room / available emergency exit from window / fire-resistant doors etc?

Someone I know had a loft conversion in a 1930's house done in the 1980's. They had to have "solid" stairs (i.e. verticals as well as the treads) and a dorma for evacuation whereas the neighbours who'd had an earlier loft extension were allowed slatted stairs & Veluxes.

My current neighbour did an illegal loft conversion & it's a smoking household, so I have little faith in their insurance if they have a fire.

G_M

It's a terrace.

Find the oldest inhabitant in the row and talk to them.

If the original 1901 houses all had attic rooms, then talk about PP or Building Regs is irrelevant.

If the attic room is a conversion/addition, it depends how recent.

Local agents/surveyors might well know the history of the properties. Don't rely on the agent you are buying through (he is biased as he just want the sale to go through so he gets his commission).

When was the switch from Veux to dormer done? This may have required Building regs certification.

I wouldnt rely on a solicitor to advise on building/safety matters, or even Planning, beyond writing and asking for copies of documents.

Katawampus

The road consists of all sorts of mis-matched terraces stuck to one another, maily built in multiples of two, and the only one house that's exactly like ours is the one to the left, which has the same stairs and loft. The owners purchased it 14 years ago.

I'm told that they both had dormers originally, with the other house switching to Velux. I think this was the 70s.

G_M wrote: »

It's a terrace.

Find the oldest inhabitant in the row and talk to them.

If the original 1901 houses all had attic rooms, then talk about PP or Building Regs is irrelevant.

If the attic room is a conversion/addition, it depends how recent.

Local agents/surveyors might well know the history of the properties. Don't rely on the agent you are buying through (he is biased as he just want the sale to go through so he gets his commission).

When was the switch from Veux to dormer done? This may have required Building regs certification.

I wouldnt rely on a solicitor to advise on building/safety matters, or even Planning, beyond writing and asking for copies of documents.

phoebe1989seb

Sounds a bit like our last house OP - although that was a thatched Georgian house - insofar as when we purchased in 2011 as a partially completed project, there was a rather dubious looking set of rooms in the attic that the vendor assured us had been there *for ever*.

As the vendor had started the restoration process - new timbers and thatch - and there were two staircases (one definitely new) leading to the attic bedrooms, we were not convinced as we felt that, despite many timbers being obviously ancient, there was too much evidence of recent changes. There were five windows, four of which were dormers - these looked old, but it was hard to tell just how old.....

We weren't getting a mortgage and chose not to have a survey, instead inviting an architect friend with experience in listed buildings - although I should add that this house wasn't listed - to advise us. He was of the opinion that the rooms had been there many years, but couldn't confirm exactly how long. Most importantly he assured us that the structure was sound and in no way at risk.

Long story short, when we received the deeds and associated documentation relating to the house we discovered that the attic was converted to habitable space in 1951, which iirc predates the introduction of building regulations.

Maybe, just maybe the loft conversion in the house you are considering was also done way back in the mists of time......

Somewhere, hopefully there will be someone who can confirm when the attic was converted.

eddddy

Hi Katawampus

So presumably you're happy with the loft situation - it's just your solicitor who is concerned (probably because he/she is representing the mortgage lender).

If all else fails, instruct an RICS surveyor to inspect the property and give an opinion on the age of the loft conversion.

It would be very difficult fora solicitor or lender to argue with a report from a chartered surveyor.

lincroft1710

My aunt lives in a small Victorian property which was built with a loft fitted out as a bedroom, proper staircase (although steep and narrow) plastered walls and dormer window. Quite common in many areas, so stand your ground and politely tell your solicitor his specialist knowledge is law, not 19th century building construction.

jimbog

Rather than go to the library try the achives department of your local council and ask about historical house plans for your street.

Mine kept those dating back 100+ years for virtualy all the houses (wax technical drawings that once had to be signed off by the mayor no less!)

bouicca21

Jimbog is spot on - it's the archives you want. They might have old photos, or planning documents, they might have old estate agent's particulars, they might have the adverts for when the house was first built and sold (local newspaper good for that too), they might even have the records of the builder.

And failing that enquire about Valuation Office records - there was a scheme 1910-15 to document properties in order to tax improvements from new roads etc. The survey records are incredibly detailed and may well establish that the loft room is original.