Help!! Letter from Debt Recovery Plus

QuestionsQuestions13

Hello,
Sorry if this is a long post. I'm in a total mess and I don't know what to do.
On 18th November last year I took my son to hospital for an appointment. I didn't have enough change for the parking machine and presumed they'd take credit cards over the phone. I phoned the number on the machine and was told by the operator that they didn't take credit card payments, could I drive to a cash point? I explained that I'd be late/miss my sons appointment and the operator suggested that I should then see if I got a ticket and if I did to write to the company explaining what had happened. I presumed that he wouldn't have said this if company policy was that this would never be considered as grounds for not having a valid ticket. I thought as I'd tried to pay and had rung them it would be okay. It wasn't.

I got a ticket and wrote to the parking provider (APCOA) explaining what had happened. They wrote back to me on 2nd December and said that they didn't agree with the appeal. I could either pay the fine or appeal through POPLA. I decided to do the latter but found the whole thing very stressful so contacted parkingticketappeals.org.uk and paid them to sort it out for me. They seemed legit and had lots of good feedback etc so I thought it was all in hand.

Then last week I got a letter from Debt Recovery Plus stating that I need to pay £110 by the 11th February. I thought this must be a mistake and tried to contacts parking ticket appeals only to find out that they had folded (and knew they were doing so when they took my money) and that the appeal had never been logged with POPLA. The twenty eight day period given to apply to POPLA has expired.

I rung POPLA this morning to see if they would extend the period and let me appeal still. They said I'd have to send the appeal in and see.

I rung APCOA and explained the situation. They said there's nothing they can do as they've referred me to POPLA and the Debt Recovery Service and it's up to them to deal with it now.

I feel like I'm caught between the devil and the deep blue sea. I wasn't ignoring the situation but because parking ticket appeals took my money and did nothing, my fine has gone from a potential £60 if I'd lost the appeal to £110 with a debt recovery agency. To be honest, I'd pay the £60 to get them off my back now but £110...!!! I can't get any redress through parking ticket appeals as they no longer exist. I don't know what to do and I've got to do something before Wednesday according to this letter. I find all this sort of thing really worrying. Any advice you can give me would be brilliant.

Thanks very much in advance.

Redx

just read post #4 of the newbies sticky thread, explains all about debt collectors and their toilet paper

its above this thread, near the green banner

you can ask paypal for your money back

you can send in your own popla appeal (and see), the popla appeal examples are in post #3 of the NEWBIES sticky thread , ask them to accept it due to the circumstances you described (the liquidation of PTAS)

you could try the PPA listed on parking cowboys too

ps:- its not a FINE, its an invoice, so lose that 4 letter word from your vocabulary

this "deadline" is irrelevant , its the popla issue you need to concentrate on, plus getting your money back from paypal

ps:

DRP = Debt Recovery Plus

its also = Dont Respond - Period !!

read posts #12 and #13 in here about DRP

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5161978

pogofish

Also have a look at some of the recent DRP threads (last six months or so) - TBH, you are in exactly the same boat as everyone else with one these, regardless of you individual circumstance.

QuestionsQuestions13

Thanks so much for your (very quick) replies. I'll read the links and try not to panic anymore!!

Redx

ok , find a popla appeal that matches or is close to your "circumstances" or the location (you said hospital but didnt mention which one)

email it to them with the popla number and explain its late due to....blah blah and ask them to ask the lead adjudicator to accept it due to the circumstances

try to do this asap

then go for a paypal refund

IGNORE DRP

as Judge Rinder says , write that last part in BIG, = IGNORE drp, cant stress this enough, they cannot do anything at all, nothing , not them , not zenith, not any of their other incarnations

concentrate on getting this to popla and a refund, nothing else

give more info if you need help finding a good appeal to alter

and never, NEVER use the word FINE for these issues, its an invoice, like you may get for shopping or from a builder

QuestionsQuestions13

I would really appreciate some help finding an appeal to alter and send to POPLA. I've read through pages of them but can't find anything that seems totally relevant. The ticket was issued in Ealing Hospital car park. I've done this as a search but can't find anything. I looked on pepipoo too and couldn't find anything. Part the problem is I'm not sure what my grounds for appeal are. There was signage saying that you needed a valid ticket. However, when I phoned up APCOA I was told that if I got a ticket I should write to them and explain what had happened and that I'd rung. I feel that this was the misleading information. It implied that I would have grounds to challenge the original ticket. I would have gone to a cashpoint and missed my hospital appointment if the operator had told me that I would definitely be liable for any ticket I got, despite me ringing them. I feel this was unclear advice. I didn't have a ticket (valid or otherwise) so I suppose I can't argue that my vehicle was 'not improperly parked'.

I'm sorry if I'm being a bit thick but it's all so confusing, I'd be really grateful if you could point me in the right direction.
Thanks.

Half_way

have you been in touch with Ealing Hospital?
Is this APCOA or APCOA FCM ? who has the contract with the hospital to infest the car park?

Redx

complain to pals at the hospital and demand a cancellation

not sure how you missed this long running apcoa , hospital and popla saga, so have a read

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5049715

your appeal will be based on not a gpeol, no contract and poor signage, which is in nearly every popla appeal you would have seen so far

the actual popla appeal is in post #51

remove the EA2010 and Blue Badge content so it fits your case, plus if its a different hospital change the wording to suit your location etc

dont reinvent the wheel, just make it fit your place and case

QuestionsQuestions13

It just says Apcoa parking so I'm presuming it's just Apcoa. I'm drafting something using the other appeals now. And I will write to PALS. Thanks.

QuestionsQuestions13

Hello,
I've drafted my appeal as advised. I'd be really grateful for any feedback. I've been over it numerous times and it all makes sense to me but I've never done anything like this before so any help would be most welcome.
Thanks very much in advance.


I am the registered keeper of the above car and hold a valid driving licence, I am not liable for this Parking Charge Notice for the reasons detailed below. I acknowledge that the 28 day deadline for submitting this appeal to you has expired but claim extenuating circumstances and would ask you to consider it notwithstanding.

I received a windscreen ticket at the Ealing Hospital car park on 18.11.14 and immediately wrote to APCOA explaining the circumstances detailed below. On 4.12.14 I received a letter from them stating that they did not uphold my appeal. I determined to appeal the Parking Charge Notice but did not feel confident in doing so myself. As such, I paid a company called parkingticketappeals.org.uk to take on the case. They assured me they would put in an appeal to you and that I did not need to do anything unless I received further correspondence from APCOA.

I had researched the company and found they had been operating legitimately and in a timely manner so, reasonably I believe, assumed the appeal to you had been lodged.

On 31.1.15 I received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus Ltd demanding payment of an unpaid parking charge £110. I presumed an error had occurred and attempted to contact parkingticketappeals.org.uk for reassurance. Their phone line was dead. Their website simply advised that they had ceased trading. At no point had I been contacted and informed that they were not dealing with my appeal. I have researched the appeals process as quickly as possible and hope that you will be understanding of the circumstances stated and consider my appeal despite it being out of the 28 day application period.

I am not liable for this Parking Charge Notice for the reasons set out below.

1. The Signage Was Not Compliant with the BPA Code of Practice and was not seen before parking - so there was no valid contract formed between APCOA and the driver.

A lack of signs at the entrance to the car park and unclear wording creates no contract.

2. No Contract
I parked the car in the car park of Ealing Hospital having taken my eight year old son, who has Additional Needs, for an outpatients appointment. On arrival at the ticket machine I was surprised to find that it did not take bank notes. I did not have enough change to pay the parking charge so I telephoned the number given on signage next to the ticketing machine and spoke to a representative of APCOA (call ref: 17112014192). I asked to pay the parking charge over the phone but was told this was not a facility that was provided. The APCOA Representative suggested that I drive somewhere to obtain cash or change but I informed them that we were at a hospital and that doing this would make me very late/miss my son's appointment, wasting valuable NHS resources. The APCOA Representative then advised me to go to my appointment and if I got a parking charge notice to write to APCOA explaining my circumstances and outlining our conversation. I, reasonably, assumed that if I did get a PCN and did as the APCOA Representative had advised, any charge would be immediately cancelled.

I did get a PCN and wrote to APCOA accordingly. However, they did not uphold the appeal.

I acted, in good faith, on the advice of an APCOA Representative, rendering any other contract APCOA claim was entered into, invalid.

According to the hospital website, 'failure to display a valid parking ticket may result in with you being issued with a parking enforcement notice of £30'. However APCOA then tried to extract double that amount from me, as I tried to challenge the ticket, as registered keeper of £60. As stated above, that demand for payment has now risen to £110.

The Ealing Hospital website does lay out the parking charges but does not provide information that the machines only accept coinage, with no change and that there is no facility for phone/credit card payments.

3. Punitive Sum
I believe the amount APCOA are trying to claim is a punitive sum. I believe that APCOA cannot claim penalties, as this is an unfair term. The following refers: Office of Fair Trading 'Guidance for the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999'(UTCCR 1999): ''It is unfair to impose disproportionate sanctions for breach of contract. A requirement to pay more in compensation for a breach than a reasonable pre-estimate of the loss caused to the supplier is one kind of excessive penalty. Such a requirement will, in any case, normally be void to the extent that it amounts to a penalty under English common law...''

Test of fairness:

''A term is unfair if...contrary to the requirement of good faith it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations under the contract, to the detriment of consumers.

5.1 Unfair terms are not enforceable against the consumer.

9.2 terms of whose existence and content the consumer has no adequate notice at the time of entering the contract may not be binding under the general law, in any case, especially if they are onerous in character.''

The charge that was levied is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) pursuant to the UTCCR 1999. The OFT on UTCCR 1999, in regard to Group 18(a): unfair financial burdens, states:
'18.1.3 Objections are less likely...if a term is specific and transparent as to what must be paid and in what circumstances.

A sign of terms placed at the car park is far from transparent and is also rendered void by the conflicting advice given by an APCOA Representative, contacted in good faith.

Schedule 2 of the Regulations gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list of terms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e) "Terms which have the object or effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his obligation to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation." Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) states that: "A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer".

The charge that was levied is an unreasonable indemnity clause pursuant to section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 which provides that: "A person cannot by reference to any contract term be made to indemnify another person (whether a party to the contract or not) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligence or breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the requirement of reasonableness.”

I contend it is wholly unreasonable, having attempted to pay the initial parking fee and acting on the advice of an APCOA Representative, that an attempt be made to profit by charging a disproportionate sum. I put this Operator to strict proof to justify that their charge, under the circumstances described, does not cause a significant imbalance to my detriment and to justify that the charge does not breach the UTCCRs and UCT Act.

I therefore request that my appeal is upheld and for POPLA to inform APCOA that the charge is dismissed.

Redx

make 3) more applicable with NOT A GENUINE PRE ESTIMATE OF LOSS and add that too the title

or add it as a further item , like 4) or 5)

have a menu at the beginning

so

1) blah blah
2) blah blah
3) blah blah
4. Lack of Standing / Authority from Landowner
5) Not a genuine pre estimate of loss

expand more on the signage

add a 4th or 5th menu option stating that you do not believe APCOA have a valid contract etc to pursue charges at this car park

research what other popla appeals say about this and try to copy it, that thread I linked to is a prime example of no contract between the trust and apcoa , so allege the same for your hospital and car park, make them produce the unredacted contract etc, no witness statements

always make sure you have the 3 main appeal points

not a gpeol
no contract between landowner and parking company
bad signage that doesnt comply with the BPA CoP

so good try , 6 out of 10

you are getting there

ps:- add a point in the opening statement that the lead adjudicator can allow late appeals in unusual circumstances, so ask them to clarify this with the lead adjudicator and state that proof of purchase can be submitted (paypal receipt)

ie:- dont let the minion answering the emails fob you off

have a look at this recent one for a hospital

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5165777

and this one

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5141607