ANPR-ltd PCN

HelenDaff

At the end of November 2014, I parked in a local shopping centre car park, which I had always understood was owned by our local council, apparently not and apparently not for quite some time.

Anyway, I'm a blue badge holder, parked in a marked 'disabled bay', and upon my return found I had received A PCN for Other Parking Breach': clock set at 2

The ticket was issued not long after 12.

I have never parked in a disabled bay in this car park, ever as there's never been spaces, and over the years never set the clock on my 'blue clock' provided with my badge, as I thought it was council owned, and our council has unlimited parking for disabled drivers-free.

I have had Parking Eye PCN's before and ignored them as suggested on here, but ANPR-ltd appear to have a lot more cases on the net, which people are suggesting appeals should be made.

First off I believe the landowner is the person who has to show they have made a loss because of my parking 'offence', not ANPR, secondly as a Blue badge holder, and parking is free for 3 hours, have they actually had any loss?

I'm pretty sure the sign said max 3 hours, but I'm also pretty sure it didn't say I needed to display my clock (one forum I read from a consumer site advised the clocks were only for when parking on yellow lines anyway.)

Anyway it took until the end of January for ANPR to contact me, some 2 months after the initial PCN, and issue me with an 'outstanding parking notice', now asking for £100 and detailing 'debt recovery cost' for contacting the DVLA, (despite the fact they have already contacted them), also details of fees for 'county court summons' and 'judgement enforcement officers fees' , though they have detailed these fees they are not in the same print or colour as the actual 'parking charge notice' fee.

So where do I go from here ?
Do I ignore?
Do I write to the Landowners?
Do I appeal to ANPR-ltd?

I'm off on holiday in a couple of days. So want to get any letters I need to get sent done so before I go away. (I know I should have gotten on here sooner, but haven't been well since receiving the letter last week (I might say not caused by the letter).

Any advice greatly received.
:mad:
:money:

Redx

ignore ? - no

landowners ? - yes, under the EA 2010 they are liable for this

anpr ? - yes, send the template letter in the NEWBIES sticky thread

read that newbies sticky thread thoroughly

as for your BB, its not valid on private land , but the EA 2010 is

read the blue booklet supplied with the BB to see where it has value, like public roads with yellow lines (but check for loading chevrons etc) - on road paid for bays (public roads, not private) - council car parks where charges MAY or may not apply

the clock should be set within quarter of an hour of the arrival time , not any other time - it should ALWAYS be put on show and set in this manner, every time the badge is used (public or private)

in future , do not ignore in england or wales , APPEAL

IGNORE has not been correct for more than TWO years !

Umkomaas

NO - you definitely don't ignore. And in the case of your previous case with ParkingEye, ignoring them today would likely land you with a Small Claims Court case for you to contend with.

Anyway, back to ANPR Ltd. Different kettle of fish to PE. Bargain basement outfit led by the inimitable Trevor Whitehouse, erstwhile Chairman of National Clamps, and the inventor (including all the mathematical algorithms) of ANPR-in-a-Box, capable of spotting shoplifters, terrorists and illegal immigrants. Needless to say, never really took off!

This will be easy to handle. You will find how to do it in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky at the top of the forum index, one page back from here.

Do come back after reading that if you're not clear on anything at this initial appeal stage.

Redx

also, report them to steve clark at the BPA for issuing a pcn to a vehicle displaying a BB

I have copied and pasted this from fergies hospital post

Blue Badge Authority

I fail to see what the issue is here? To me it is black and white. Your AOS COP states:

If your landowner provides a concession that allows parking for disabled people, if a vehicle displays a valid Blue Badge you must not issue it with parking charge notices.

To me that is definitive. If a blue badge is on display then you MUST NOT issue a parking charge. There are no caveats to that, no room to manoeuvre

adjust that to suit and complain they are in breach of the BPA CoP

HelenDaff

Redx

So, I'm a bit confused.
Do I appeal, or write to BPA reporting them or both?

Also I last ignored Parking Eye mid 2014, nothing happened, guess I was just lucky.

I was under the impression (obviously wrongly) that PCN's were just that, a notification and not a fine.

I get very confused as I get conflicting advice from different websites, but will follow what's on here as I have in the past and thank you both so far for information provided.

Will get letters sent tomorrow.

:mad:

Redx

HelenDaff wrote: »

Redx

So, I'm a bit confused.

1) Do I appeal, or write to BPA reporting them or both?

2) Also I last ignored Parking Eye mid 2014, nothing happened, guess I was just lucky.

3) I was under the impression (obviously wrongly) that PCN's were just that, a notification and not a fine.

4) I get very confused as I get conflicting advice from different websites, but will follow what's on here as I have in the past and thank you both so far for information provided.

Will get letters sent tomorrow.

:mad:

1) both

2) rubbish, they have up to 6 years to issue court processdings and I would anticipate you will get letters about this sometime this year, they take tends of thousands of people to court each year now, especially those who ignore them , so I do not believe you are lucky, just very naive and misinformed at the moment

3) they are not a fine, a private company cannot fine you

they are an INVOICE

4) the advice in the sticky threads on here is correct, please follow it (also correct on pepipoo forums too)

you can easily email s clark, the details are in the newbies sticky thread , enclose copies of your paperwork

HelenDaff

Having just read the 'newbies' thread, can I ask what happens if after a window screen ticket initially had been issued, the PCN letter didn't arrive or wasn't even sent within the 57 days specified, it took them 61 days to send the letter.
I see it said they have to send this letter if there was no ticket within ? 15 days and if there was a ticket 57 days,
Do I therefore add this to the letter? (that they failed to send a registered keepers PCN within the correct time frame).

I will copy and paste the letter tomorrow and send it to them, I will also send a copy of that with another letter to the landowner, and the BPA.

Do I also state about not bing able to ticket a car displaying a blue badge?

Thanks on e again for all your help,so far.

:mad:

Umkomaas

If they are attempting to invoke keeper liability, possibly quoting The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (is this mentioned on their windscreen ticket or on their NtK?) they are out of time if the dates/days you quote are correct.

You can cover this in the 'Keeper Liability' section of the initial appeal template, but it will come more into play in your POPLA appeal and (if they are attempting to invoke keeper liability) in your complaint to the BPA, alongside your BB complaint.

Owd Trev must be perilously close to the end of the BPA gangplank in terms of sanction points. Your complaint could be the one that sees him 'step off' (or something like that)!

HelenDaff

Ukom..

On the ticket it does not mention the PoF act 2012, nor on the follow up letter, the follow up letter just states:
(A ......with the licence plate ....... which is registered/hired to you was parked was parked in direct contravention to the companys wishes.....


I'll get on with writing the letter as I go away tomorrow, get proof of postage fo all letters.
1. tio ANPR ltd
2. BPA
3. Car Park Owners (owners of the shopping centre) - mibght even take this letter down there.

Thank you everyone for all your information, obviously I'll be more careful from now on, I'll also probably be back on here asking for more help no doubt when they throw it all back to me.

Redx

do not mention or infer who was driving at all in these complaints

no I DID THIS , or MY BLUE BADGE etc

if ANPR are not using POFA 2012 , they are hoping that you will be silly and reveal the drivers details, because if not using POFA 2012 they can only pursue the driver

in essence, your appeal is , GO MITHER THE DRIVER, NOT ME, I WONT TELL YOU WHO IT IS

for now stick to the plan with the template letter but add that the NTK was not received in time so POFA 2012 doesnt apply

complain to s clark by email about the BPA CoP breach as regards the vehicle displaying a valid BB in accordance with the signage yet has been ticketed regardless

Umkomaas

You're going to have to jump through a few of Owd Trev's hoops, but ANPR Ltd are totally benign in terms of taking small claims court action. Just as preparation you're likely to get:

1. A rejection letter from (the fictitious) N. Martin, who 'knows the car park personally' and has spoken with the operative. The letter is unlikely to give you a POPLA code (and time for another BPA/DVLA complaint) at this stage.

2. A 'debt collector' letter from Expedion, who occupy a desk opposite owd Trev, but who use a postal address in South Wales. Enclosed with this letter will be a 'mock up' of court papers, personalised with your details, with the threat that unless you pay in 14 days, court proceedings will commence. All designed as a 'frightener'. Please be reassured none of this will result in court proceedings.

Of all the PPCs, the stuff from Trev is by far the most mirth-inducing, and while at this early stage you might be somewhat concerned about this, please try to relax and have a good old chuckle about it all. We will be here to help see you through it.