3 different types of property - which is best?

Missus_Hyde

For me, it's location every time.

No matter what you do to the property in terms of improvements, you can't pick it up and move it if you don't like the area you're living in!! ;-)

Fraise

Missus_Hyde wrote: »

For me, it's location every time.

No matter what you do to the property in terms of improvements, you can't pick it up and move it if you don't like the area you're living in!! ;-)

I couldn't agree with you more.mits common sense, really, but some people won't have it.

The poster Sniggings said location isn't important, which is simply untrue. He also said he'd only ever buy a top floor flat, and that doesn't make sense, either. If you live in a horrible area chances are you have to walk past undesirables and goodness knows what to get to your block. What if the lift is broken and you've got 10 bags of shopping with you? How are you going to climb all those stairs...and how will you know if someone isn't lingering on a landing waiting to mug you? Undesirable areas have undesirables living there, often struggling for money or on drugs......

Then there's the fire safety issue. What if there's a fire 5 flats below you? How are you going to get out?

If you're talking about luxury apartment blocks overlooking the Thames, with concierge, that's a different matter, but to live on the top floor of a block or house in a crummy area would make me nervous. Besides, building regulations are different now. All floors from the ground to the top must be sound insulated.

Anyway, it's location, location, location. And everyone knows that.

AlexMac

I echo Fraise, L Twinkletoes and MisterB's concerns about leases and service charges if buying a leasehold. Is the Victorian property a shared freehold - i.e. one where you and the other leaseholders collectively own the Freehold -usually through a non-profit Company (where at least you and your neighbours have more control over costs)?

I've had three such leaseholds in the past where charges were reasonable and good value (£400-£1,300 pa), but friends' service-charges in a new-build block are now £4k pa and rising!

If you go for the leaseholds and the vendor/EA doesn't know or fudges it, try talking to the neighbouring leaseholders, and/or googling or contacting the freeholder before any offer. I did once and discovered they were a money grubber who had already thrashed their leaseholders in Court over their failed 'Right to Manage' case.

benjus

Leasehold can be great, but it's hard to know exactly what you're getting into before you buy. I live in a leasehold flat in a converted Edwardian property. The building is managed by a company set up by the residents under the right to manage process, taking over from one of the big national rip-off property management firms. So now we collectively decide how much to pay and what to spend it on, and I believe it's well managed. 5 out of the 6 flats are owner-occupied, so there's a good feeling that everyone cares about making it a nice place to live. I don't feel that I'm worse off than if I'd bought a freehold property.

However, only some of that information was available to me before exchange of contracts, so I could have ended up not being so lucky.

sniggings

Fraise wrote: »

It certainly IS location, location, location, everyone knows that,

Why do you think people pay hundreds of thousands more to live in Greater London and the south east? It's location, location, location ever time.

As for flats and noise, it's very rare now to suffer noise problems in flats. New builds are built to strict regulations to ensure noise control.

Council properties are built the same way too.

you missed the point, I was saying the OP doesn't only have the 3 houses to choose from as in Location, if these flats/house doesn't make him want to run to the bank and buy then probably not the right ones.

as for noise, you only have to read on here that noise in flats is still a problem. Have someone that is a heel striker above you and you'll hear every footstep.
The soundproofing rules would not apply to the victoria property either, and they can have next to no sound proofing.

Kynthia

Leasehold has its pitfalls but loads are bought everyday. The main thing is to check out the lease length (so that you get one long enough to not affect your sale in 5 years), the service charge (is it excessive, is there a sinking fund), and how is it managed (is there an inept and greedy management company, is it share of freehold which can be good but not if the flats are let it and the owner sdont care about maintenance of the building).

Freehold has its issues too. There are many people who are at a stage in their lives where they don't want the hassle and responsibility of maintaining a house themselves. Finding someone to clean and repair the gutters, mow the lawn, get the repointing done, find the cause of the damp, updates the windows, etc, etc. Are you ready to be responsible for maintaining a house?

As others have said location is important, as you can change and improve a property but you can't change its location. Noise is off putting so I'd be wary of a noisy road, but it's not out of the question, plus an up and coming area might take longer than you're going to live there. So where do you want to live, where will make you happier everyday and feel safe?

You aren't buying an investment property you are buying a home. So you still want to make a sensible decision and definitely avoid any chance of negative equity but there's no point living somewhere you hate or feel unsafe for years in the hopes of making a little extra when you sell. So personally I'd avoid new builds if I wanted to sell in five years or less as they are no longer new and therefore lose that premium. Not all new builds drop in value at first and in a rising market it might still sell for a good profit in five years. However I'd only buy one if I loved it and would be staying for a lot longer.

I might be wrong but I get the feeling you want flat 1 but feel like you 'should' buy house 3 because people have told you that freehold is good and leasehold is bad? Don't live somewhere you don't want to because of these fears, do your research first.

So I hope that's given you some food for thought.

Fraise

sniggings wrote: »

you missed the point, I was saying the OP doesn't only have the 3 houses to choose from as in Location, if these flats/house doesn't make him want to run to the bank and buy then probably not the right ones.

as for noise, you only have to read on here that noise in flats is still a problem. Have someone that is a heel striker above you and you'll hear every footstep.
The soundproofing rules would not apply to the victoria property either, and they can have next to no sound proofing.

No, I think it's you whose missed the point. You said location isn't important and it didn't matter if you lived on a noisy road: millions would disagree with you. As one of the other posters rightly said, you can change the interior but you can't pick the property up and put it in a different road or area,

Properties are always cheaper on busy roads, much cheaper, and there's a reason for that. People don't want heavy traffic whizzing past every day and night. Besides the awful noise you have the pollution and dirt flying around.

There's absolutely nothing you can do about road noise, but you certainly can with noise from neighbours. It's isn't just flats that can sometimes have noisy neighbours,neither - many houses have people living next door or opposite who make noise and nuisance. There's an ongoing thread about it now, where a man has gypsies living in the house next door causing him misery.

Flats and apartment blocks are built to strict regulations now, and can actually be quieter than some houses. Victorian conversions (done badly), can transmit noise, but people nowadays remedy that by having soundproofing between floors and walls and there's usually clauses in the lease that states upper floors must have floor insulation and impact underlay to prevent noise to flats below.

Laminate flooring is actually banned in certain properties, and I think council properties don't allow it, either. If you do want it you have to have soundproofing fitted under the floorboards or industrial type impact underlay similar to what luxury hotels use. You go to a good hotel almost anywhere in the world and you won't hear a pin drop from above, as they use acoustic and impact underlay on top of their soundproofing,

What you can't soundproof is traffic and lorries rushing past outside. Who wants to live in a place where you can't get some fresh air or sit outside, even if it's just a balcony? Or how about when it's hot and stuffy and you want to open your windows but can't due to the increasing traffic noise and fumes flying up?

Even the vibration of traffic whizzing past is enough to drive you mad.

Fraise

Kynthia wrote: »

Leasehold has its pitfalls but loads are bought everyday. The main thing is to check out the lease length (so that you get one long enough to not affect your sale in 5 years), the service charge (is it excessive, is there a sinking fund), and how is it managed (is there an inept and greedy management company, is it share of freehold which can be good but not if the flats are let it and the owner sdont care about maintenance of the building).

Freehold has its issues too. There are many people who are at a stage in their lives where they don't want the hassle and responsibility of maintaining a house themselves. Finding someone to clean and repair the gutters, mow the lawn, get the repointing done, find the cause of the damp, updates the windows, etc, etc. Are you ready to be responsible for maintaining a house?

As others have said location is important, as you can change and improve a property but you can't change its location. Noise is off putting so I'd be wary of a noisy road, but it's not out of the question, plus an up and coming area might take longer than you're going to live there. So where do you want to live, where will make you happier everyday and feel safe?

You aren't buying an investment property you are buying a home. So you still want to make a sensible decision and definitely avoid any chance of negative equity but there's no point living somewhere you hate or feel unsafe for years in the hopes of making a little extra when you sell. So personally I'd avoid new builds if I wanted to sell in five years or less as they are no longer new and therefore lose that premium. Not all new builds drop in value at first and in a rising market it might still sell for a good profit in five years. However I'd only buy one if I loved it and would be staying for a lot longer.

I might be wrong but I get the feeling you want flat 1 but feel like you 'should' buy house 3 because people have told you that freehold is good and leasehold is bad? Don't live somewhere you don't want to because of these fears, do your research first.

So I hope that's given you some food for thought.

That's excellent advice:)

Leaseholds are very common, and most flats in London are all leasehold. If you're really lucky you can sometimes find a 999 year lease, which is as good as freehold really.

It's all swings and roundabouts. As you say, some people don't want the hassle of maintenance and would sooner pay to have it done for them. If you own the freehold of a house you still have to pay builders to do work that's needed, so it's much of a muchness really. In some ways it can be a luxury to have others do the donkey work with maintenance and repairs, but what is essential that you make sure you're not paying too much in the way of maintenance costs.

Some management companies charge money for old rope, and if it's a small block or a converted house, it's far better to cut out the middleman (managing agent) and self manage the property. All managing agents do is make phone calls and get workman round, often expensive ones who are all in each other's pockets. You don't need that.

If the property is easy to maintain, and just needs external decorating every 10 years or so, plus gutter cleaning etc, it only takes a few phone calls from the owners to get 3 quotes from builders and the jobs done. It's dead easy to self manage, and you can insist on it if the managing agent is useless and overcharging.

If it's a large estate with lots of flats you obviously do need a managing agent, but certainly not for somewhere that's just got about six flats. You're throwing money down the drain. And in all honesty, if a property is in fairly good condition anyway, how often does work need doing?

catoutthebag

sniggings wrote: »

it's not Location Location Location, there are more than 3 options.

You don't mention what floor the flats are on? I would never ever buy anything but a top floor flat, noise could be a real problem.

Flats always sell, as long as the lease is long.

Look for a top floor flat, and check out the inside sound proofing, road noise can be lived with and steps can be made to fix it, not so easy with in side noise.

This would be my thinking or option

But I'm biased as in same position as OP

I'll be most likely opting for a nice flat in nice location rather than an area that is rough

All about location. What if that area remains rough? You'll be miserable going there everyday.

A nice area will usually remain nice

Flats will always sell

People in the south expect to and will pay the service charges. They earn more and have little choice.

You won't be living there forever so swallow the service charges for a bit - least the pressure and time on maintenance is taken off your back.

Victorian conversions are nice.

Just giving another viewpoint

catoutthebag

Fraise wrote: »

It certainly IS location, location, location, everyone knows that,

Why do you think people pay hundreds of thousands more to live in Greater London and the south east? It's location, location, location ever time.

As for flats and noise, it's very rare now to suffer noise problems in flats. New builds are built to strict regulations to ensure noise control.

Council properties are built the same way too.

Conversions also are converted according to building regulations, and they have to lay sound insulation and proofing, so it doesn't matter which floor you're on. When you go up to Central London and look at the hundreds of super apartment blocks overlooking the Thames, some of them are 40 floors high. And not everyone lives in the penthouse. I know for FACT you can't hear a pin drop from above in those flats, such is the noise insulation.

In fact, Ive heard more noise coming from houses next door, and I'm talking about detached. Some of those new builds with the thin walls are paper thin...you can hear your next door neighbours snoring.

IF you were to buy a flat that had noise problems, it's far easier to have insulation and soundproofing fitted what you can't change is the street you're on. If you're in a busy high road there's sweet fanny Adams you can do about the noisy traffic. I would NEVER live next to a busy main raid or dual carriageway..that would be a nightmare.

At least if you're on a quiet road you can get some peace and quiet.

Agreed

Too much house bias on thr forum

Remember like me OP is FTB.

We have yo start somewhere. ..let's choose an affluent leafy aspirational area. Always sought after.