Dentists Overcharging Patients

welshdent

If the dentist was doing phased treatment which is perfectly acceptible he was probably saving you money!! The people you spoke to said if he had provided a temp denture or bridge then this can be replaced ... ignoring the obvious this would have been a band 3 charge ... followed by another band 3 charge. Instead it was to be a band 2 charge then a band 3 - saving a fair bit of cash ... and the dentist is perfectly entitled to do this. Always has been.

Regards being entitled to see the hygienist on the NHS ... no thats not right.

You are entitled to a scaling IF deemed necessary. That doesnt mean it is with the hygienist who does not hold a contract with the NHS to do UDAs and is not able to treatment plan. Now depending on the practice the hygienist may well do the scalings for the dentist but thats at their discretion it is not an entitlement. A lot of places dont even have one.

Toothsmith

pirateyqueen wrote: »

Oh god. That doesn't give me much confidence for my future NHS braces and jaw surgery!

Jaw surgery is done by maxiofacial surgeons. This sort of thing is firmly in the 'proper' NHS. Not some fudge of a system that was never really properly incorporated into the NHS anyway.

We all have our own opinions on 'The NHS'.

But dentistry on 'The NHS' isn't really comparable with anything else.


When I said "No one knows what they're doing" it was more referring to the rules & regulations and how to apply the charging structure rather than the actual fixing of teeth!

BlueSkyFool

Toothsmith wrote: »

Things like this come up in the media fairly regularly as well. In fact, at the time you 'discovered' all this - there had been another Which? report on the issue of dental charges the week before - and Jeremy Vine had discussed it on his show the day you posted. So hardly the most earth-shattering 'discovery'

Look Im not trying to emulate Erin Brockovich and I accept totally that this subject had most likely been raised before and if it had the mods on here were welcome to delete my thread.


My only intention was to simply pass on information to prevent overcharging because in my opinion this is a rather worrying issue which to my knowledge is happening a few too many times.


I certainly am not tarring all dentists with the same brush and I am not on a "rant" as you so eloquently put, I am well aware there are some genuine health care professionals that don't resort to overcharging the public.


A close friend of mine is a dentist and it was through her that I made enquiries about the charges because as a single parent I was petrified about the obscene costs involved as I was desperate for help as I was in extreme pain.


I agree totally that dental health is completely important but that's very easy to say when if you have the funds to afford it and mostly the reason why the general public opt for NHS treatment. It was only when I found myself being inconsistently charged regardless of the costs described in the bands of treatment that I realised this seems to be a rather common practise.

Toothsmith wrote: »

So some dentists are misleading people. Just the same as some builders do, some plumbers do, some lawyers do, some accountants do, some financial advisors do, some scientists do, some bankers do, some vicars do and - you'll never guess - there are even one or two politicians who aren't exactly honest either!

'Dentists' are not doing this - some dentists do, and it's a minority.

Your preaching to the converted here, I am well aware there are scams pretty much everywhere you look, even education in this country is corrupt to the hilt, however please don't take offence just because I am highlighting an issue, this is not a personal attack, this is just about "awareness"

Toothsmith wrote: »

Now - another bit of earth-shattering news. The NHS website isn't really the most accurate of things when it comes to NHS dentistry.

You are right when you say that everything clinically necessary to secure dental health should be offered on the NHS. If a hygienist appointment is necessary for securing health, then it should be offered, or the dentist should do the equivalent work to achieve dental health.

If the gums aren't 'unhealthy' though, but there is a build up of debris & staining - then the patient could opt to pay to see the hygienist privately.

See this here is my issue, yes the patient can "opt" to see a hygienist privately however "some dentists" are failing to divulge that a treatment he recommends is private only. Surely if they did it would allow the patient the option of refusing his/her recommendation due to the cost involved in private treatment.


It is unacceptable for a patient who registers as NHS to suddenly be hit with misleading charges that are not in tune with the banding costs, if the NHS Website is not wholly accurate why has this not been addressed sooner to stop people like me questioning this issue?

Toothsmith wrote: »

In this situation it is crucial that the dentist does give a very good explanation of the difference so that the patient knows exactly what they are paying for. If you read the threads on here about NHS patients paying for hygienist appointments you will see that in the past I have been very critical when it seems that dentists have NOT explained this well, or seem to be misleading people into paying for treatments that should be available to them.

But in your case - I don't have enough information to go on - and, to be honest, I don't think you do yet either.

I agree totally and this is where my concern lies, I just felt that not everyone is educated enough about what treatment they are entitled to benefit from because they are unaware of what is covered under each banding but it feels like "some dentists" are not exactly volunteering this information either and this again is unacceptable.

Toothsmith wrote: »

I'm not sure where the £151 overcharge comes from either. What were they charged? For What? And what do you feel was excessive?

In terms of whitening - just being retired and in your 60s doesn't mean you don't want to look your best. £120 is actually a pretty good deal for tooth whitening. I charge much more!

I have whitened the teeth of people from 20 - 76 (I think was the oldest so far!).

Older people do have a bit of a resistance to spending money on themselves - thinking it to be 'a waste' - and this wouldn't be the first time an older person has been tempted to do something like this, but then when a relative has found out, become all embarrassed and pretended they'd not known what they were signing up to! I'm not saying this did happen - but it is a possibility.

So - if you would like to clarify what you feel they were 'overcharged' for, then I will happily help and advise.

If you just want a hysterical 'Daily Express' 'All Dentists Are Crooks' rant - then I'll leave you all to it.

The overcharge with my parents is as follows:

• My parents had check up, with diagnosis and x ray (band 1) charged £18.50 each
• Follow on treatment and my mum was charged correctly only an additional £32 meaning she was charged the correct amount of £50.50 (band 2)
• However my dad was charged a further £62.00 meaning he had now paid a total of £80.50 there is no band of treatment that costs this amount.
• my mother is then charged a further £121 for the hygienist and again there is no band of treatment that costs this amount.

This makes the total overcharge £151.


Whether or not you feel that price is reasonable the whole issue is completely misleading.


And trust me I know how tight fisted my folks are, I 'am always telling them off for their penny pinching, I can assure you if they were both told this hygienist was private and not NHS I assure you they would not have pursued the matter, and would have settled for their filling and the standard NHS treatment

Toothsmith

Was that all hygienist treatments?

£121 seems a lot for 1 hygienist appointment. Was it 2 or 3 appointments? What was the £62 for your Dad for?

Where did this whitening that you mentioned on your first post come in?

BlueSkyFool

Toothsmith wrote: »

Was that all hygienist treatments?

£121 seems a lot for 1 hygienist appointment. Was it 2 or 3 appointments? What was the £62 for your Dad for?

Where did this whitening that you mentioned on your first post come in?

I agree Toothsmith, the £121 was only for 1 hygienist appointment and only for my mum.


The £62 was my dads second charge for treatment after his initial check up (band 1 £18.50) my dad didn't see the hygienist.


The hygienist advised my mum to buy a whitening kit as it would make her teeth stronger which I told her was not true a whitening kit is not for making teeth strong its just for cosmetic purposes, but correct me if I am wrong.


I absolutely mean no disrespect towards you or your profession but these charges are ridiculous and not within the boundaries of the bandings, unless dentists volunteer and keep their patients well informed you can understand why people will start to ask uncomfortable questions, it makes me think there will be a rapid decline now in dentists taking on NHS Patients if all this overcharging comes to light.

Toothsmith

BlueSkyFool wrote: »

I agree Toothsmith, the £121 was only for 1 hygienist appointment and only for my mum.


The £62 was my dads second charge for treatment after his initial check up (band 1 £18.50) my dad didn't see the hygienist.


The hygienist advised my mum to buy a whitening kit as it would make her teeth stronger which I told her was not true a whitening kit is not for making teeth strong its just for cosmetic purposes, but correct me if I am wrong.


I absolutely mean no disrespect towards you or your profession but these charges are ridiculous and not within the boundaries of the bandings, unless dentists volunteer and keep their patients well informed you can understand why people will start to ask uncomfortable questions, it makes me think there will be a rapid decline now in dentists taking on NHS Patients if all this overcharging comes to light.

Believe me, dentists are just as sick of those that 'game' the system as you are. It is no 'big secret' that it does go on in some places. But - as you observe - if the NHS cracked down on it, then pure NHS practice would become almost unworkable! So they seem to turn a blind eye.

That's partly why I've spent so much time on here over the last 10 years! Trying to educate people about the difference between dentists trying their best to make the system work, and those that are just gaming.

With your parents - I still don,t think we really know enough.

If the hygienist DID say the whitening kit would make the teeth stronger - that is wrong. But I don't know what sort of kit it was, or why she would have said that? Also - I'm still not convinced that £121 is a charge for just 1 hygienist appointment. Might it have been a 'double' appointment i.e. 1h long instead of 30 mins? Either way - if it was so long, then it would suggest that there was a real 'need' there for more than just a 'cosmetic' polishing - and if that were the case, then it really should have been available on the NHS.

As for your Dad, you're still not being very specific about what this £62 'treatment' was? Was it a filling? Did he opt to have a white filling instead of an amalgam one? It sounds about right for the average charge for a white filling? Or was it something else? For example, if it were something like a night bite guard for tooth grinding - that would be a NHS Band 3 charge of £219! But a simple bite guard can be quite a cheap thing to make - so some dentists just charge a lower private charge and £62 could be about right for this?

From how you have written this up - it does sound a bit suspicious. But at the moment, there isn't enough information to go in, all guns blazing.

It certainly sounds like, at least, they should have explained things a bit better to your Mum and Dad - and maybe written a bit more down. But they were at the practice and had the explanations - you weren't. People do forget things, and if a lot of information is coming across at once, people can misunderstand things too. And - as I suggested earlier - when faced with a cross daughter saying "Why on earth did you pay that much" - older people can become a bit embarrassed, and make excuses, despite being well informed at the time!

I would go to the practice with a 'curiously helpful' approach. Being happy with their treatment, but just wanting a bit better breakdown of the charges. If you go in aggressively, then the alarms will go off, and the shutters come down.

brook2jack

The other thing that's a bit odd is a hygienist cannot prescribe teeth whitening , and it is not done as a "kit" impressions are taken and trays are made etc but it has to be prescribed by a dentist.

However tooth mousse type products definitely can help "strengthen " teeth are often recommended by hygienists and are not available on the NHS and can come in kit form.

brook2jack

Any band 2 or 3 course of treatment or any mixed nhs/private treatment should generate a fp17dc estimate form ( or computer generated similar form) This details what you are having done, what it will cost and what part of the treatment, if any, is private.

It is a requirement specifically to stop this type of confusion. Here is what the form looks like although many dentists use a computer generated estimate which still covers the requirement http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20130107105354/http://www.dh.gov.uk/prod_consum_dh/groups/dh_digitalassets/@dh/@en/documents/digitalasset/dh_4139048.pdf

Wadingthroughmud

Hi all,


2 years ago I had root canal treatment. It seemed successful but then last week it started hurting. I booked an appt with my new dentist. On the day of the appt I noticed a small abscess.
The dentist took an X-ray and said I had 2 options
A/ I could have root canal treatment again but is have to pay privately as it wouldntbe available on the NHS
B/ I could have an extraction and dental implan. Again privately
Both would cost £1k+

Is it really true I can't have root canal done a second time on the NHS?

Any help or advice on why I should do next gratefully received!

BlueSkyFool

Wadingthroughmud wrote: »

Hi all,


2 years ago I had root canal treatment. It seemed successful but then last week it started hurting. I booked an appt with my new dentist. On the day of the appt I noticed a small abscess.
The dentist took an X-ray and said I had 2 options
A/ I could have root canal treatment again but is have to pay privately as it wouldntbe available on the NHS
B/ I could have an extraction and dental implan. Again privately
Both would cost £1k+

Is it really true I can't have root canal done a second time on the NHS?

Any help or advice on why I should do next gratefully received!

No absolutely this advice is not true look this is what it says on the NHS Website

"Depending on what you need to have done, you should only ever be asked to pay one charge for each complete course of treatment, even if you need to visit your dentist more than once to finish it. You will not be charged for individual items within the course of treatment"

The root canal and extraction comes under the £50.50 band 2 treatment so tell your dentist you are going to complain about his overcharging because clearly he is a bloody con artist money grabbing little weasel of a man I really hope you get it sorted soon x