Sort codes, do banks still use them?

solentsusie

agrinnall wrote: »

It's fine to choose your sort code on that basis, but the staff at the branch with that sort code will know no more about your account than a member of staff in Orkney would (assuming your user name indicates your location).

As everything is centrally automated and your data can be accessed by any branch I suppose which branch you choose to have your account 'held' at is immaterial. But I think a stroll to Orkney may well take me a while if I want to have a chat.

Does having local sort codes allow more account numbers to be generated. A bit like telephone area codes?

Armorica

Yes - banks still use sort-codes.

But banks use sort-codes in different ways from each other and for different products - and have done for years. The concept of a ‘local/home’ branch is gradually weakening. For example, with HSBC my current account has a branch sort-code and my mortgage has a centralised sort code. But in practice, I can speak to advisors/managers etc. in any branch. E.g. I signed loan documentation in the branch that was simply most convenient after loan approval via the phone.

Some banks will still process some payments at branch level - especially decisions whether to pay a cheque or not. Almost all will have a central system, but some banks will have more than one central system e.g. the system that personal customers used is not the same as large corporate accounts are held on in some cases.

Sort-codes are irrelevant for ‘managing accounts’ - this can all be dealt with in internal IT systems. Sort codes are still critical for the routing of payments though (as they have always been).

Local sort-codes arguably reduce the number of account numbers than can be used. A small branch will never use up all possible account numbers. A large branch could easily run out - especially anything to do with corporate accounts.

Mrs_Ryan

I did wonder about that as OH questioned the location that came up with his Barclays sort code on a share dividend payment advice he was given. I didn't realise that they were non geographical now- my Barclays account is about thirteen years old and the branch in Liverpool is long gone so now the sort code comes up as a generic Liverpool South 2. My Halifax account was opened online and I don't actually have a branch- ive been asked for a branch name a few times when ive been filling in DD forms etc and I never know what to write as I don't actually have a branch as such.

fira

Paul_1977 writes:
>I have been looking it up, and apparently in the early days they were used to route cheques and payments etc via your local branch which processed it. By hand, and the branch would update head office records at set times although I am not sure how without computers, was it by post????<

Paul,

When I was a lad in the late 60's I joined RBS just after the merger with National Commercial Bank. All cheques that came in over the counter were 'spread' into different bundles, one for RBS then others for each local bank. Three times a week at the note exchange we passed over the cheques to Clydesdale, Bank of Scotland and TSB and they gave us ours (we didn't have a British Linen in the town or that would have been included too). The difference in value would be settled by what was then known as an agent's claim voucher.

Yes, every item that came over that counter was handwritten through a waste sheet. The RBS cheques and pay-ins were also then keyed into a separate NCR machine that produced a long ticker-tape. At 4pm every day a taxi collected the tape and took it to what was known as the concentrator branch which ran the tapes for all local branches pushing the info to the RBS main computer in Edinburgh.

Some cheques were treated very differently (I remember Q&LTR and other government departments) and those were put into satchels called 'Edinburgh Walks' and 'London Walks' then sent to those cities where they were indeed 'walked' to the branches the cheques were drawn on or a central clearing office.

How times have changed.

Bill

help4help2013

ive always known them to use them

Cornucopia

Yes, they are still used.

Different banks use them in different ways. The traditional banks (HSBC, Barclays, RBS/Natwest, Lloyds and TSB) tend to have local branch sort codes.

Originally, the Building societies just had account numbers, and didn't use sort codes because they were not linked to the main banking clearance system. This was in the days when cash cards were not universal.

When Building societies started to become banks, and started to offer current accounts, they had to join the banking system and needed sort codes. But there was never any need to identify branches with them.

Paul_1977

fira wrote: »

Paul_1977 writes:
>I have been looking it up, and apparently in the early days they were used to route cheques and payments etc via your local branch which processed it. By hand, and the branch would update head office records at set times although I am not sure how without computers, was it by post????<

Paul,

When I was a lad in the late 60's I joined RBS just after the merger with National Commercial Bank. All cheques that came in over the counter were 'spread' into different bundles, one for RBS then others for each local bank. Three times a week at the note exchange we passed over the cheques to Clydesdale, Bank of Scotland and TSB and they gave us ours (we didn't have a British Linen in the town or that would have been included too). The difference in value would be settled by what was then known as an agent's claim voucher.

Yes, every item that came over that counter was handwritten through a waste sheet. The RBS cheques and pay-ins were also then keyed into a separate NCR machine that produced a long ticker-tape. At 4pm every day a taxi collected the tape and took it to what was known as the concentrator branch which ran the tapes for all local branches pushing the info to the RBS main computer in Edinburgh.

Some cheques were treated very differently (I remember Q&LTR and other government departments) and those were put into satchels called 'Edinburgh Walks' and 'London Walks' then sent to those cities where they were indeed 'walked' to the branches the cheques were drawn on or a central clearing office.

How times have changed.

Bill

Thanks for that info Bill, If they had to use that system today I suspect it would all grind to a halt.

I find it all very interesting, I wonder how many mistakes were made etc. I wonder how banks keep records today, do they keep paper records I wonder?

I remember reading somewhere about how banks must keep backups in secure locations incase there is a nuclear war etc but really cannot see the point of that hardly anyone would survive and money would be no use.:D

I am surprised there are not more computer failures like the RBS one a few years ago, they must handle so many numbers one slip in the digits and it will all go wrong.:rotfl:

wiltslass

Interesting thread. I worked for Barclays in a smallish provincial town in the late 60's. Cheques drawn on our branch arrived each morning in special bags. They were sorted, scrutinised and cancelled for payment before being posted to correct(?) accounts using NCR machines. It was mainly business accounts that had account names printed on the cheque in those days. It was a case of reading the signature on personal accounts quite often not easy to do. One person would just post to the accounts on paper and another would do the same actually onto the statement . A third person would check that they were the same. Throughout the day cheques would be paid in over the counter, some drawn on other banks. They would be sorted into 'locals' , own branch, and aways. The locals would be walked the following day to local branches where an exchange would take place. Doing the 'locals' was usually a pleasant task providing the weather was ok, as it gave an opportunity to pop into the bakers for a treat to have with our coffee. Orders would be taken before we left the branch! Oh happy days!

fira

Paul

I hope branches are now much less paper-heavy. We were falling over it. All savings account passbook entries were mirrored in large ledgers. When someone came in and made a deposit or withdrawal the passbook would be passed to the ledger staff from the teller. We then had to create an entry in the ledger and the balance had to tally with the before it was handed back to the customer. I hated when the ledger had a large number of dividend credits added and I'd then to transfer those to the passbook and then find the divident counterfoil to hand back to the customer.

Also, every day we'd receive customer statements from H.O. We'd first to find all cheques listed on the statement and then stamp up envelopes with address plates (every customer had one of their own). Same with cheque books, all were blank and we would find the metal plate for the customer (it had name and account number embossed on it) shove it into the machine and bang it down onto every page. Everyone was paranoid about missing a page and leaving it blank. That was a serious remprimand!

Wiltslass, enjoyed reading your mention of the local exchanges. Was the same for us. Thinking back now it was amazing the amount of money just two us would carry through the town streets to the office the exchange was to happen. Day and times were never changed. We would have been an easy target. The only rule we had was the leather cash bag must not be strapped to your wrist in case someone did try to snatch it and you ended up being pulled under a car/bus.

A final piece of nostalgia. I remember the RBS introduction of the first cash cards. Small plastic things that you entered into the machine and got a plastic wallet back containing £10. That was it. That wee card was then sent back internally to the issuing branch and the customer was manually debited through the NCR machine.

Bill

SurfKing

I'm not sure in what ways they're used these days other than as part of your account identifier, but I do know that Bank of Scotland branches call customers with accounts "based" at their branch for customer reviews. I still get calls for reviews (ie to sell me stuff) from the BoS branch halfway across Glasgow where I first opened the account when I was 11 (!) even though I haven't used that branch in years.