Guarantor and possible documents forged with advice from letting agency

thequant

ed1su wrote: »

Thequant


No They havn't denied the contract but are saying that they were not given tenancy agreement. They been requesting one from letting agency ever since but are not providing one. Not if they made this request in writing.


They also says that the letting agency have not send them any documents for the hearing. So no idea what they are planning on doing.


The Guarantor has been trying to get hold of documents using Data protection Act but not been successful. They are waiting for an outcome from information commission office, who did state last week that they will provide their decision end of this week. They were suppose to be contacting letting agency to see if they will provide the requested documents regarding to guarantor.


I will keep you updated. Need to send a letter off to the court of not receiving any documents from letting agency.


I sent my recorded delivery and they have been signed for.


Ed1su

re. the the tenant, first thing to learn in terms of law regarding contracts. Is that it is not a physical object that exists. It is an agreement, whether written down or not. So even if the agency refuse to hand it over, it doesn't invalidate the contract, neither can their failure to produce it in court be relied on as a defence (although it makes life tricky for them).

The only way their failure to produce the contract could be used as an absolute defence is if the tenant denied the contract existed and it was not produced by the claimant.

Whereas for the guarantor, they deny signing any agreement,then when said document does not turn up or is produced so late that proper scrutiny of said document is not possible, then it's essentially case closed if you make the right moves.

The key thing here is what has been stated in the defence. If you outright deny something and the other side fail to produce any evidence then the judge has to side with you.

If you don't deny, and the other side fail to produce evidence then the judge has to make a decision as to who to believe.

thequant

ed1su wrote: »

I will keep you updated. Need to send a letter off to the court of not receiving any documents from letting agency.


I sent my recorded delivery and they have been signed for.


Ed1su

Get the letter into the court, mark FAO of judge XXXXX. State in plain and simple terms, the other side failed to send their documents and you request, that if said documents are subsequently supplied that you request that they are not admissible.

ed1su

1st defendant said the court have posted them Guarantor's defence.. they received them today.


they are saying they had no tenancy agreement so they followed their website which states If you have to leave the university come and see them in office. Which they said they followed that advice handed key.. paid rent until Jan 2014..


They left nov 2013.


Since past few the websites has been taken down saying they are launching new website soon.


Guarantor also quoted the website where it states before tenants gets the key the have to come with guarantor with ID to sign the contract before keys are handed.


Fortunately the guarantor printed the webpage out in November and use it as one of documents stating where is this contract and who signed it.


Ed1su

thequant wrote: »

re. the the tenant, first thing to learn in terms of law regarding contracts. Is that it is not a physical object that exists. It is an agreement, whether written down or not. So even if the agency refuse to hand it over, it doesn't invalidate the contract, neither can their failure to produce it in court be relied on as a defence (although it makes life tricky for them).

The only way their failure to produce the contract could be used as an absolute defence is if the tenant denied the contract existed and it was not produced by the claimant.

Whereas for the guarantor, they deny signing any agreement,then when said document does not turn up or is produced so late that proper scrutiny of said document is not possible, then it's essentially case closed if you make the right moves.

The key thing here is what has been stated in the defence. If you outright deny something and the other side fail to produce any evidence then the judge has to side with you.

If you don't deny, and the other side fail to produce evidence then the judge has to make a decision as to who to believe.

ed1su

Thanks for the advice.. Will do


Ed1Su

thequant wrote: »

Get the letter into the court, mark FAO of judge XXXXX. State in plain and simple terms, the other side failed to send their documents and you request, that if said documents are subsequently supplied that you request that they are not admissible.

Marktheshark

They are going to have to trump up a signed Deed of Guarantor or the case will be over in seconds.

ed1su

The thing after the guarantor reported the letting agency to Information Commission officer , they emailed the guarantor and stated that since you couldn't make it to signing of the contract you are still liable as a guarantor.


Guarantor is using this email as a document in court.


Ed1su

Marktheshark wrote: »

They are going to have to trump up a signed Deed of Guarantor or the case will be over in seconds.

Marktheshark

ed1su wrote: »

The thing after the guarantor reported the letting agency to Information Commission officer , they emailed the guarantor and stated that since you couldn't make it to signing of the contract you are still liable as a guarantor.


Guarantor is using this email as a document in court.


Ed1su

A guarantee bond has to be a deed, signed by 3 persons.
The Guarantor, the Holder and one witness to sign to say they have seen both people sign the same deed.
If all they have is an E-mail, I would make sure you have a claim for £90 expenses for court ready.
It will be short hearing.
First thing the DJ is going ask for is, Ok lets see the Guarantor Deed.

What are they going to say, we do not have it your honour, they read our website and that makes them a guarantor .
I would pay to sit on that one.

Marktheshark

Another point if they are a company they will need a solicitor for right of audience, you can represent yourself and take a McKenzie friend or lay advisor.
They need a brief.
If they really are that daft and turn up in person, ask the judge rules in what right of audience they sit under the litigation and legal services act.
They might not even get seated.

thequant

Marktheshark wrote: »

What are they going to say, we do not have it your honour, they read our website and that makes them a guarantor .
I would pay to sit on that one.

I've seen big companies with paid representation (even though it's small claims) attempt worse.

My fav was one involving myself, someone suing for an alleged 18 year debt.

The claimant turned up with no docs at all, and attempted to argue they shouldn't be expected to keep documentation for that long.
Judge asked them, how they expect to win a case with no paperwork at all and not to mention there was a 6 year statue barred limit on claims.

Judge then tore them a second @$$hole, and awarded me damages on top of costs using their own volition.

ed1su

In Judge instruction no expert witness can be used...


As for email they emailed the guarantor stating "since you could come with (tenant name) to sign contract, you still are liable as a guarantor"


The Guarantor also in defence asking the judge can they asked the claimant to bring in the witness who witness signing of the contract.


Since in Dec 2014 letting agent sent a blank contract, there is a space for witness to sign.


Ed1su

Marktheshark wrote: »

Another point if they are a company they will need a solicitor for right of audience, you can represent yourself and take a McKenzie friend or lay advisor.
They need a brief.
If they really are that daft and turn up in person, ask the judge rules in what right of audience they sit under the litigation and legal services act.
They might not even get seated.