If Apple paid their taxes...

antrobus

mayonnaise wrote: »

For those still confused, it's a picture of a Foxconn factory. They supply components to a whole range of brands like Blackberry, Sharp, Nintendo, Amazon (Kindle), Sony Playstation, Xbox, Samsung, Apple, Panasonic...etc...etc...
I assume your moral outrage extends to all those brands?

Funnily enough, I believe that Foxconn also supply BMW and Audi.

chewmylegoff

Graham_Devon wrote: »

How much better off would we be in this country? By we, I mean the treasury?

Apple have today announced record profits. Not for Apple, but for any public company in history.

They made a net profit of £11.8bn in it's first fiscal quarter.

Obviously that's not all from the UK, but they continue to avoid tax in the UK and continue to come under pressure around the world from their ethics of employing low paid, "dodgy" labour. Infact, some of the validated stories of how those who work on their products are treated are just appalling. What we would class as children in this country are dying on the assembly lines putting these devices together.

The US has calculated that Apple has avoided £29bn worth of Tax in four years (this was in 2013).

Apple now sit on so much cash, they could buy 400 of the 500 companies in the S&P index outright.

Is there something wrong here? Should they be made to do more? Or should we just accept this is the way it is and celebrate them?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31012410

The only solution to the 'problem' of companies legally avoiding tax is for governments to change the law so that they have to pay more tax. No company is going to pay more than they have to; the directors have a fiduciary duty to the shareholders to minimise their tax bill.

antrobus

tincans6 wrote: »

Simply wrong.....

No, it's correct. Ultimately all of Apple's profits fall to be taxed within the USA. I think you'll find that's something that the IRS will insist on.

tincans6 wrote: »

...Almost the entire OECD tax system is based on the premise that tax should be paid in the country where profits are earned....

First, there is no such thing as an "OECD tax system". Secondly, what you clearly don't understand is that whilst (for example) Apple Germany will pay German tax on its profits, if those profits are then transferred back to the US by way of dividend, then it will be subject to US tax as well. Depending on what exactly are the terms of the US-Germany double tax treaty.

tincans6 wrote: »

....However, all of all Apples non-USA profits are routed through Cork, Ireland and manage to not even pay the Irish rate of 12.5%, but closer to 2%.....

And to the extent that those profits have been earned in non-Irish jurisdictions then tax will have been paid in those jurisdictions. It's parking those profits in Ireland to avoid US tax.

tincans6 wrote: »

....
The specific tax dodge the Apple use even has it's own name the "double irish" - and laws to try and prevent it started this month (we shall see how that goes).

Although the USA does have the highest headline rate (39%), the actual tax rate for USA corporations in 2011 was 12%

The effective tax rates that large multinational corporations claim to suffer from in their published accounts are often much less than the headline rates that apply, because they are parking their profits in some convenient low-tax jurisdiction.

Oddly enough, Apple has quite a high effective tax rate, because (and I think I'm remembering this right) it has a policy of full provision, i.e it calculates it's liability to US tax on the assumption that all its profits are repatriated to the US. Most companies don't do that.

IronWolf

tincans6 wrote: »

Simply wrong.

Almost the entire OECD tax system is based on the premise that tax should be paid in the country where profits are earned.

However, all of all Apples non-USA profits are routed through Cork, Ireland and manage to not even pay the Irish rate of 12.5%, but closer to 2%.

The specific tax dodge the Apple use even has it's own name the "double irish" - and laws to try and prevent it started this month (we shall see how that goes).

Although the USA does have the highest headline rate (39%), the actual tax rate for USA corporations in 2011 was 12%

No the poster was correct, in the US all profits are subject to US taxation on repatriation. That is why so many companies do not repatriate their cash and leave it offshore, hoping the USA will give a tax holiday in the future. That cash can't be used to pay dividends, or buyback shares, essentially locking it away from the owners until tax is paid.

antrobus

antrobus wrote: »

....I'm not sure why Apple is so special in this regard.

I'm an idiot! I really am! The answer is so frackin obvious.

A British journalist in search of some copy will happily recycle some stories from the US media about the evils of Apple's tax planning strategies. Because the source is in English. They won't do the same for BMW or Samsung because they don't know any German or Korean.

That's why Apple (or Google whatever) is so special.

JWF

Generali wrote: »

Foxconn will also employ a huge number of alcoholics, transsexuals, BDSM enjoyers, frustrated artists, guitar players and car thieves.

How do I sign up?

TickersPlaysPop

I boycot big business as much as possible.

Why buy coffee and a cake from a company that is sucking the life out of our country.

I go to independent small cafes as much as possible for lunches, they will be paying their tax.... also carpets... restaurants....

But the choice these days is very limited..... we need a movement in the UK to make big business socially unacceptable ..... and the second choice.

TickersPlaysPop

Oh yes... and Juncker leader of the EU is being investigated for his part in tax dodging. While he was finance minister in Luxemborg the country was offering cheap deals for companies setting up their head quarters there.

They would and still do internally cross charge between countries to wipe out profits on paper...

Globally this can never be stopped..... at the moment.

So .... That is why we need to boycot big business and somebody very rich and smart need to set up companies that pay their tax....

We need energy companies
Communications
Internet shops eBay etc

We need choice in the market to chose companies that pay their tax.

There is so much money being sucked out of our economy, and a very significant part of why we are stuggling to bring down the deficit.

TickersPlaysPop

Target your anger not at benefit scroungers.... That is a drop in the ocean compared to the corporations effectively stealing your public services due to the lack of tax revenue for the chancellor ... NHS.... social care.... local council services.... Etc...

It makes you realise who is really running this country.... the chancellor is very willing cut benefits..... but very reluctant to do anything about corporation tax avoiders.