Syrzia Won!

CLAPTON

lisyloo wrote: »

Presumably it's not welcome by everyone.

That's true, reality is often unwelcome, but if the Euro is to survive then there has to be workable mechanisms to accommodate the different economic situations of the various nations.

In a single nation, the richer regions support the poorer via taxation and spending policies; however, there is no such mechanisms in the eurozone.
Germany chose to transfer large amounts to East Germany but refuses to do the same for Southern Europe.

jjlandlord

CLAPTON wrote: »

Germany chose to transfer large amounts to East Germany but refuses to do the same for Southern Europe.

That's true, nevertheless it would be easier for a country to accept to help others if said others were diligent in applying the rules and had good governance.

It may be necessary to help Greece but it is not very palatable when their problems are mostly of their own making.

CLAPTON

jjlandlord wrote: »

That's true, nevertheless it would be easier for a country to accept to help others if said others were diligent in applying the rules and had good governance.

It may be necessary to help Greece but it is not very palatable when their problems are mostly of their own making.

the EU has appalling governance so Greek government fits in pretty well.
some individual countries have reasonably good internal governance depending upon what is meant by that :

However, for purely political reasons, the eurozone area lent money like it was going out of fashion with no creditable checks and balances.

Greek people and government acted within the corrupt EU environment.

Luxembourg blatantly and corruptly conspired with large multinational companies to divert tax revenue away from other EU countries and into their own pockets : no sanctions there and highest possible rewards for the chief crook

Germany had full knowledge of all the corrupt practices and conspires with the silence for political ends : so now the politics has changed.

purch

CLAPTON wrote: »

Germany chose to transfer large amounts to East Germany but refuses to do the same for Southern Europe.

And the results of that transfer were felt throughout Europe, recession and overly high interest rates to name two.

It might seem like an easy option just to give them the money, but the collateral damage would be immense throughout the Eurozone

CLAPTON

purch wrote: »

And the results of that transfer were felt throughout Europe, recession and overly high interest rates to name two.

It might seem like an easy option just to give them the money, but the collateral damage would be immense throughout the Eurozone

what collateral damage would that be?

jjlandlord

CLAPTON wrote: »

Luxembourg blatantly and corruptly conspired with large multinational companies to divert tax revenue away from other EU countries and into their own pockets : no sanctions there and highest possible rewards for the chief crook.

How is that related?

Seems to me that Luxembourg just followed the recipes used by the UK, Ireland, the US (at least at State level), and others: Attract companies by being tax-free or very low tax.

I think your hatred (apparently) for the EU is clouding your judgement.

CLAPTON

jjlandlord wrote: »

How is that related?

Seems to me that Luxembourg just followed the recipes used by the UK, Ireland, the US (at least at State level), and others: Attract companies by being tax-free or very low tax.

I think your hatred (apparently) for the EU is clouding your judgement.

there are some that say that the Greeks morally 'deserve' to suffer because of their own poor governance

my point is that poor governance is general throughput many parts of the EU but some seems worth of hammering a whole people and some doesn't.

antrobus

danothy wrote: »

Well I did say "new New Drachma". ...

You can say anything you like. The label you stick on a currency is of no consequence.

danothy wrote: »

...If you were going to convert 1:1 and then not issue new money to pay the debt it'd be a fairly pointless exercise....

By what mechanism would this money be created, and by what mechanism would it be used to pay the debt?

danothy wrote: »

..As for the unit of productivity, well that's deliberately unspecified, but the amount they can do or produce that is of value doesn't change overnight, and some portion of that amount is a unit of it. They were essentially borrowing against this productivity. It's of relevance to Greek sovereign debt in that if what they pay back can only be spent with them and suddenly it's worth less, then they have to give less units of productivity away to cover the debt.

I agree, but from where I'm sitting a switch to a New Drachma and the creation of new New Drachma to pay debts would be the whole point. The 'fiddle' will just happen automatically and so would, essentially, change the amount outstanding in productivity terms for the reasons above and in nominal Euro terms due to a rapid shift in FX equilibrium....

Good grief! Why use such a long, confused, and ultimately meaningless explanation, when want you really mean is 'devaluation'.

danothy wrote: »

.
If their creditors will only accept Euros then there's a whole new set of questions to be answered.

Put it this way; if you lent somebody a £100, and they offered you £50s worth of Vietnemse Dong in repayment, what would you do?

danothy

antrobus wrote: »

You can say anything you like. The label you stick on a currency is of no consequence.



By what mechanism would this money be created, and by what mechanism would it be used to pay the debt?



Good grief! Why use such a long, confused, and ultimately meaningless explanation, when want you really mean is 'devaluation'.



Put it this way; if you lent somebody a £100, and they offered you £50s worth of Vietnemse Dong in repayment, what would you do?

It's almost like you're not reading what I'm actually writing, or wilfully misunderstanding it.

antrobus

danothy wrote: »

It's almost like you're not reading what I'm actually writing, or wilfully misunderstanding it.

So basically you have no answers, but you'd like everybody to think it's somehow my fault.:)