Tenancy Deposit Dispute

Rufus1987

Hello everyone, I am hoping you can help with a deposit dispute I am going through with my previous estate agent.

Near the end of last year the owner of our rented property sold the flat we were renting to a new owner. We moved out as, although the estate agent said the new owners would like to keep us, we would have to move out and immediately move back in (apparently the property had to be empty for the owners to get the mortgage or something). This would have incurred all the move out costs, move in costs and a new deposit (over £2000 all in). Sounded like they were pulling our leg so decided to find somewhere new to live.

This was all fine until the checkout inventory check. There was a clause in the contract that said the flat has to be cleaned to a professional standard. We had on previous occasions told both the landlord and estate agent that the flat was not clean when we moved in i.e. grease all over the kitchen ustensils, dirty mattress and sheets, black mould ingrained into the kitchen worktops etc. It was noted on the checkin inventory that the flat was clean to a professional standard but as this was our first flat in London we had no idea what this really referred to. We had a cleaner come in for 3 hours to clean the flat, thinking that this would clean the flat to a far better standard then when we moved in.

The estate agent is now saying that the landlord will dispute £200 plus VAT to have the flat cleaned (£240) as we left it in a domestic cleaned standard only. I have offered to compromise and split the cost of a £120 all inclusive clean which is guaranteed to get you deposit back but the estate agent has come up with excuses not to use them (they have no public liability - false, they are not approved, the landlord won't agree etc.).

My questions are:
i) The OFT states that the "professional clean" clause in a contract is an unfair clause, am I likely to win the dispute as I have paid a professional to clean and there was no specification for what was required?

OFT guide (can't post url as this is my first post) "cleaning charges - a requirement to pay for cleaning at the end of the tenancy may be unfair if it is vague or unclear about the basis on which money will be demanded, or the extent of the cleaning involved. Such a term is more likely to be fair if the amount of the charge is expressly limited to reasonable compensation for a failure to take care of the property (see also our views below on excessive charges)

ii) The previous landlord who we had a contract with and who I assume the estate agent is liaising with is a friend of a friend, it is unlikely that he would not agree to the cheaper compromise and insist on the £240 deduction. Could the estate agent be acting on behalf of the new landlord with who we did not have a contract (and therefore they cannot raise a cleaning dispute)? And should I ask who the "landlord" all the correspondence refers to is?

Thanks in advance for any help. If any more details are needed the please let me know.

Pixie5740

If you moved out of the property before the sale completed then the only LL you have ever had a contract with is the original LL.

The term "professionally cleaned" is pretty pointless. It's not like there's a guild of cleaners or something that determines a standard between professional cleaning and domestic cleaning.

Now that your tenancy has ended it's too late for you to get a cleaner of your choosing to come in.

So you have an inventory from when you first moved in saying that the property was professionally cleaned but by the sounds of it the flat wasn't clean at all. How did you communicate this to the LL/LA at the time? In writing? Do you have copies of your correspondence?

Rufus1987

Unfortunately all the correspondence was verbal, mainly during the flat inspections and when we me the landlord personally. I am sure that the estate agents code of practise means they have to note all verbal correspondence during these meetings but I doubt they have. We do have pictures of the dirty mattress but couldn't really photo greasy surfaces.

We only had a contract with the previous landlord so he must be the one that is responsible for instructing the estate agents to raise the dispute?

Rufus1987

I have asked for the landlord details so I can find out if it is the new landlord instructing the estate agents.

I assume that if it is the new landlords instructing the agents that the flat was not clean then they are not eligible to deduct costs from the deposit?

Pixie5740

Why would the new owner be instructing the letting agency to do anything with your deposit? They have never had a contract with you. They might not even have a contract with the letting agency.

If you want to dispute the proposed deductions the log into whichever deposit scheme your deposit is protected with and raise a dispute. However, if there is an inventory from the start of your tenancy saying the property was clean and there's an inventory taken at the end of your tenancy saying the property is dirty you might be on a hiding to nothing with this one.

Rufus1987

It is with the old landlord LA just got back to me. I find it strange that a the old LL who is my partner's friend's Dad is pushing us for this extortionate amount of money for such a small thing when he has already sold the flat.

Also, with the whole OFT unfair clause and us paying for a professional to clean the flat the TDS dispute could go either way.

I think I might try and contact the old LL and see if we can reach a more suitable agreement, the LA seem to be very inflexible and I am not sure if they are just trying to pull a quick one.

If I have learnt nothing else from this it is that professional cleans are b****cks.

EDIT: Also, the checkout report says that the property was clean to a domestic standard and the only specific mentions of dirt were of dust, i.e. carpet dusty to edges etc.

Out,_Vile_Jelly

You say you hired a cleaner for 3 hours (and hopefully kept the receipt)- surely that can be defined as "cleaned professionally"?

theEnd

I wouldn't contact him again. Go to the TDS and claim all the deposit.
Then go from there, but I can't see the LL getting much.

Rufus1987

Yeah, we have the receipt but it was only £50 for 3 hours cleaning which seems a pittance next to the £240 they want.

I just can't be arsed going through a dispute. The back and forth between me and the LA has being going on since 22/12/14. And it seems like a lot of effort to get all the evidence together for a TDS (it seems you only get one chance to submit evidence so if you miss one piece you could gimp your case).

Pixie5740

If you can't be bothered raising a dispute then just pay the £240. Those are your options.

Rufus1987

Pixie5740 wrote: »

If you can't be bothered raising a dispute then just pay the £240. Those are your options.

I just wish it was made clear what was expected/included in the professional clean. It just seems like a clause to catch the unwary and force them into a dispute (which tenant does in spare time, LA at least gets paid to do it!) or pay lots of money.

Has anyone gone through a TDS dispute before and wouldn't mind commenting on how long it takes or their experience in general?

EDIT: Sorry for all the edits btw! I just noticed that on the TDS website it still marks us as tenants at the previous property, should this have changed when we moved out?