Anyone bought a Grade 2 listed house?

gazter

car0line123 wrote: »

There are a couple of listed semi-detached (or terraced) properties in my area.

I am desperately trying to find a house, but there isn't much on the market at all, so I am wondering if I should consider the listed houses, which are surprisingly in my price range.

Apart from a special insurance, the age of the property I guess and the need to ask for authorisation before making any changes, what are the big negatives? (

Am I missing anything obvious?

I would be grateful if anyone who has experience with these could share their views! Thanks.

I have a grade 2 listed building. Nothing yet in the last 18 months has cost me more. but it is annoying knowing i need to seek consent to do anything. I would like to replace the pleasant looking, but utterly useless, sash windows. But, that becomes an awful lot more expensive on a listed building.

SG27

I own a grade II listed cottage. It's great owning something historically important with hundreds of years of history. Unless you want to go making lots of changes then I can't see a problem. If you like the house buy it

leveller2911

Over the years I have worked on hundreds of Grade I & II Listed properties and on the whole they are a money pit. If you want to replace a rotten window they may insist that you repair it (which is not a long term solution) and even if they allow you to replace it you will need to provide drawings of the windows and sections of glazing bars ,mouldings etc. It can be hugely expensive to carry out what on the face of it are simple jobs.

Just to add as an example of how bizarre the system is. If a previous owner has fitted 1980's aluminium windows or a modern metal up and over garage door you can't just rip them out and fit something more in keeping because those aluminium windows or garage door will still be part of the Grade I or II Listing. You still need permission to change them and you will need all the necessary drawings etc.

I have a passion for historic buildings but I wouldn't own one , unless I had serious money.

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

If you want to replace a rotten window they may insist that you repair it (which is not a long term solution)

If done properly, the repairs are as "long-term" as the original window was - and that's probably longer-term than modern off-the-shelf replacements would be.

Mgman1965

slopemaster wrote: »

Sounds reasonable to me.
I mean, who would think it appropriate to put uPVC in a listed building!?

If you have a building which is rather unique I agree.

But this row of cottages although old are nothing to look at. Before listing they had been changed so much from original as to be unrecognisable (most had been rendered and painted in the 60's/70's to cover up scabby crumbling brickwork or just to "modernise" them) anyway. In some, the windows were not even original but we're replacements from again the 60's/70's.

This was a few years ago and looking at them today they look a right mess. It's almost as if the owners are in some form of protest at the councils actions, as the new wooden windows they were forced to put in have never been repainted and are peeling and rotting and the outside walls dirty and unmaintained and they generally look dilapidated and uncared for.

Or, it just maybe that most are now rentals (they are) and landlord/s won't pay for expensive painting and maintainence.

leveller2911

AdrianC wrote: »

If done properly, the repairs are as "long-term" as the original window was - and that's probably longer-term than modern off-the-shelf replacements would be.

In many cases conservation officers will not allow to completely replace sashes and want them repaired. This is neither long term or economic.

Splice repairing sash pulley stiles never works. The joint between the extisting timber and the new section will always crack because of the difference in moisture content and in the end rot again. The times I've seen cowboys splice repair windows and doors poorly or dig out rot and fill with 2 pack filler and claim to be professionaly makes me cringe. The customer doesn't see the problems until a year or two later when the timber has expanded/contracted and the joints have cracked.

Some of the companies selling these "special" two part fillers should stick to making car bodyshop fillers where you don't get the problems of contraction and expansion.

I use to splice repair windows making new sections of cills,mullions,sash styles etc but from my experience they don't last long term. Spending time and money running out sections of mouldings to match the existsing costs a premium so you might as well mortice and tenon a few joints and make a complete replacement that matches the existing. Over the years many windows/doors are like Arwrights broom ,its 150 years old , having had 7 new broom heads and 5 new handles. In many cases there is very little left of the original window/door.

I guess we wil have to agree to dis-agree

leveller2911

Mgman1965 wrote: »

If you have a building which is rather unique I agree.

But this row of cottages although old are nothing to look at. Before listing they had been changed so much from original as to be unrecognisable (most had been rendered and painted in the 60's/70's to cover up scabby crumbling brickwork or just to "modernise" them) anyway. In some, the windows were not even original but we're replacements from again the 60's/70's.



Or, it just maybe that most are now rentals (they are) and landlord/s won't pay for expensive painting and maintainence.

The owners can apply to have them de-Listed.

Its probably not going to be cheap in the short term but long term it may be cheaper when you consider the costs involved in applying to do any work.

AdrianC

leveller2911 wrote: »

The times I've seen cowboys splice repair

There y'go. The problem isn't the repair - the problem is that the repair's done badly.

Get somebody specialist and competent to do it - http://window-restoration.co.uk/ or similar (disclosure - that's a friend of mine) - and it WILL last just as well as the original window or a properly-built replacement.

Somerset

AdrianC wrote: »

Yes, you will. But the permission will be readily granted if it doesn't affect any aspect of the house of interest to the listing.

That's not my experience. I had a flat in a house that was G2 listed, particular interest a stained glass window in the communal parts. The listing officer even had a problem with the damp-proofing works (basementt flat) and I mean any variant of damp-proofing saying ''you'll just have to live with it''.


Don't assume common sense and sympathetically/in-keeping repairing will be acceptable. As RAS said, it depends whether your officer is bizarre or sensible - and if you are unfortunate, there's little you can do about it.

The_Druid

I have friends who own a Grade 2 listed house, and "money-pit" is too small a word for it.

Every repair has to be done by a specialist firm, using precisely the era-appropriate materials for the job, which themselves may be extremely hard to obtain (or which may have to be made by hand by skilled and knowledgeable specialists), and which are invariably hideously expensive.

When the council officer who was overseeing the repairs/renovations left and a new guy took over, he had completely different ideas from his predecessor, and the requirements/things which were not allowed changed.

Their insurance company insisted on certain things, which the council would not permit, invalidating their insurance. They had to transfer their policy to a firm which specialises in covering such buildings, which of course raised the cost enormously.

Even emergency-type work, such as the collapse of a ceiling, required permission to repair (and heavy restrictions on what was permitted) which took weeks and weeks to come through, so they had to live with it until approval was granted, a specialist company found who could take on the work - and they couldn't start work immediately.

I have renovated a number of old properties over the years, always being careful to retain their character and to use suitable materials. But personally, I would never take on a listed building, as the expense and the (sometimes inexplicably random) constraints are just too stressful - my friends have been at the nervous-breakdown stage for months.