Is the licence fee worth it? Poll discussion

vixens_mum

I like the idea of a pay per view box. I dont watch much BBC although it only works out at just under 40p per day. Who wants to pay for something they dont use. Not only is it 135.50 a year,if you are a pensioner and pay quarterly you are penalised with an extra charge of £5. a year,.

westernpromise

Dan29 wrote: »

That 33% figure, if true, would be the amount of people watching BBC tv at any one time. The percentage of the population who watch BBC tv during the whole year is between 99% and 100% - so your comment "2/3rds of the population who don't watch it" is not true.

That's incorrect. The audience share figure is how much of the total TV audience was watching the BBC. It's about a third, and falling. In total, two-thirds of the TV watched is not BBC, but all those people not watching the BBC still have to pay for it while they're watching something else.

By analogy, 100% of people go into a Tesco at least once a year, because Tesco are everywhere. That doesn't mean Tesco have 100% market share. They've actually got about 35% of the food market. Everybody goes in now and then, but mostly to buy a newspaper or a packet of chewing gum. Two-thirds of the grocery money is spent elsewhere. Same with the BBC.

I note that you are now saying 1/3 watch BBC tv whereas earlier you were saying 1/5 so at least we're getting closer to the truth

Mea culpa. The 20% figure was the market share for the BBC I remembered, but on investigation, it turned out to be its peak-time audience share. In fact that's recently gone as low as 15%. Its overall share is about a third. So, in general, one in three people is watching the BBC, and the other two are not watching it but still paying for it. Others still are not watching TV at all, but they're still paying for it too.

That one viewer thinks it's "cheap" because several other people are paying for him. But it's zero-sum. It's cheap for one only because it's costly for the others, who are paying exactly the same but not using it.

As a matter of curiosity - presumably, if you support the TV licence, you must also oppose water meters for the same reasons, right? You would want a return to a flat-rate charge per household for water, regardless of volumes used?

Dan29

westernpromise wrote: »

By analogy, 100% of people go into a Tesco at least once a year, because Tesco are everywhere. That doesn't mean Tesco have 100% market share. They've actually got about 35% of the food market. Everybody goes in now and then, but mostly to buy a newspaper or a packet of chewing gum. Two-thirds of the grocery money is spent elsewhere. Same with the BBC.

Exactly. So if 35% of groceries are sold in Tesco, that doesn't mean 65% of people never use Tesco; quite the opposite, as you say: nearly 100% of people use Tesco shops.

Your comments about 4/5 or 2/3 of people "not watching the BBC" are incorrect for the same reason. It may (I haven't checked) be correct to say that a third of tv viewing is of the BBC. It is certainly correct to say that less than 1% of the population never uses the BBC. Therefore, there are very few people who can genuinely say that they are funding the television viewing, radio listening, website useage etc of others.

westernpromise

Dan29 wrote: »

Exactly. So if 35% of groceries are sold in Tesco, that doesn't mean 65% of people never use Tesco; quite the opposite, as you say: nearly 100% of people use Tesco shops.

Your comments about 4/5 or 2/3 of people "not watching the BBC" are incorrect for the same reason. It may (I haven't checked) be correct to say that a third of tv viewing is of the BBC. It is certainly correct to say that less than 1% of the population never uses the BBC. Therefore, there are very few people who can genuinely say that they are funding the television viewing, radio listening, website useage etc of others.

* sigh *

I give up.

russjacks

i love going to the cinema. i think that everone should pay a tax for cinemas to be built and run, that way, even if you dont go, i can still go and watch my films cheaper than i pay now.
would you be happy to do that because that is what you want me to do so you can watch the bbc. pay for something i dont use.

Tetsuko

russjacks wrote: »

i love going to the cinema. i think that everone should pay a tax for cinemas to be built and run, that way, even if you dont go, i can still go and watch my films cheaper than i pay now.
would you be happy to do that because that is what you want me to do so you can watch the bbc. pay for something i dont use.

Heheh great idea. Also I like paintball but it's a really expensive sport and I can't afford to play. I want everyone who has ever done a sport or watched a sport ever to pay a paintball tax so that paintball will be cheaper for me

Dan29

westernpromise wrote: »

* sigh *

I give up.

I think you should, given that your argument is as follows:

I pay £100 for road tax.

You pay £100 for road tax.

When we are both driving our cars, apparently you are happy.

When I am driving my car and you are not driving your car, you are paying for me, apparently.

When you are driving your car and I am not driving my car, by your logic I am paying for you.

How can that be if I pay £100 whether you drive 1 mile a year or 100,000 miles?!

If you want a car, you have to pay road tax. If you want a television, you have to pay a television licence. Your choice. My useage of either thing does not make it more or less expensive for you.

The only people who have any cause to complain about the current system are those who genuinely NEVER watch a BBC tv channel, listen to a BBC radio station or use the BBC website. I don't think that applies to more than a tiny percentage of the population, and certainly not the 2/3 that you are claiming.

Dan29

westernpromise wrote: »

I note that the poll results were a total win for the pro-liberty, pro-choice, anti-licence fee view: we won by 67% to 33%.

I guess we are just another majority that gets to be ignored.

If this site ran a poll to see how many people want to pay council tax, how do you think most people would vote?

Tetsuko

Dan29 wrote: »

If you want a car, you have to pay road tax. If you want a television, you have to pay a television licence. Your choice. My useage of either thing does not make it more or less expensive for you.

I don't own a car but if I did and didn't use it I would have the choice of declaring it offroad and be exempt from paying the tax.

I can't have a TV and declare myself as not watching BBC and be exempt from the tax.

Dan29

Tetsuko wrote: »

I don't own a car but if I did and didn't use it I would have the choice of declaring it offroad and be exempt from paying the tax.

I can't have a TV and declare myself as not watching BBC and be exempt from the tax.

Yep that's true. However the percentage of people who own a car and never use it is probably similar to the percentage of people who own a tv and don't use any BBC service, i.e. tiny.

westernpromise's point seems to be that because 1/3 of tv viewing is of the BBC, only 1/3 of people use the BBC. That's like saying the average car is driven every third day, therefore only 1/3 of people drive a car.