PCN with an none completed Date on it

Umkomaas

On GSV, Grove Road looks very much like a public road, so you need to be arguing that VCS has no right to ticket on a public road.

I guess 'Grove Rd' is their shorthand for a nearby car park, but it's not for you to lie down and accept their sloppy recording.

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for BW Legal. Covered endlessly recently.

q2uantum

Here is a copy of the letter that I was sent from BWLegal for those interested

q2uantum

Couple of Questions :

1) Should I contact BWLegal and advise of the change of address? (Post redirection finishes end of October)

2) From some of the other posts I have read, the OP have written to the DRA and advised not to contact them again etc... should I do this?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Several threads here and on pepipoo discuss how to respond - some 'Gan Specials' on pepipoo forum exist, I think. In particular, do NOT say who was driving. Put BW Legal to strict proof of VCS' compliance with the POFA for 'keeper liability'.

q2uantum wrote: »

Couple of Questions :

1) Should I contact BWLegal and advise of the change of address? (Post redirection finishes end of October)

2) From some of the other posts I have read, the OP have written to the DRA and advised not to contact them again etc... should I do this?

Thanks

Yes, include the new address for you as registered KEEPER. Yes, you need to respond. Look at pepipoo threads as well as here.

q2uantum

Would something like this do

Dear BW Legal,

The debt is denied. The amount charged bears no relation to the parking fee..

Your debt collection costs of £54 are not appropriate. The amount is also excessive. I refer you to ParkingEye v Somerfield where debt collection costs of £60 were found to probably be a penalty by HHJ Heggarty.

Complaint
I wish to raise a formal complaint regarding your letter. You have stated in your letter I failed to raise an appeal which is incorrect as an appeal was sent to VCS within the correct time frame.

Additionally, you are misrepresenting the legal process. A CCJ is not automatically entered following a successful hearing. The losing party has 14 days to make payment and if they do this has no effect on credit or employability.

Please follow your formal complaints procedure. If I am not happy with your response, I will escalate to the CSE.

Please also change your contact details to show the registered keepers new address which is as follows:

xx xxxxxx Street
xxxx
xxxx
xxxx xxx

Regards


Any suggestions for alterations?

Cheers

q2

Coupon-mad

Add that as keeper you cannot be held liable and in the absence of any reliance upon the POFA Schedule 4, it would be for VCS to establish who the driver was, and that a contract existed with that person. So far, no such evidence has been supplied.

Ask for a picture of the sign that they purport to have created a contract.

Ask for a copy of the landowner authority, as VCS do not own that land.

And where you give the new address state that you require it to be furnished to their client and any agent used by VCS and state that it is your address for service of legal papers, should VCS feel they have a cause of action against you, as keeper of this vehicle.

q2uantum

Thanks Coupon-Mad

Is this better?

Dear BW Legal,

The debt is denied. The amount charged bears no relation to the parking fee.

Your debt collection costs of £54 are not appropriate. The amount is also excessive. I refer you to ParkingEye v Somerfield where debt collection costs of £60 were found to probably be a penalty by HHJ Heggarty.

I wish to raise a formal complaint regarding your letter. You have stated in your letter I failed to raise an appeal which is incorrect as an appeal was sent to VCS within the correct time frame.

Additionally, you are misrepresenting the legal process. A CCJ is not automatically entered following a successful hearing. The losing party has 14 days to make payment and if they do this has no effect on credit or employability.

Please follow your formal complaints procedure. If I am not happy with your response, I will escalate to the CSE.

Please also change your contact details to show the registered keepers new address which is as follows:

xx xxxxxx Street
xxxx
xxxx
xxxx xxx

I require the above address to be furnished to your client and any agent used by VCS. This address must be used for service of legal papers, should VCS feel they have a cause of action against me, as keeper of this vehicle.

May I also add that as the keeper of the vehicle I cannot be held liable and in the absence of any reliance upon the POFA Schedule 4, it would be for VCS to establish who the driver was, and that a contract existed with that person. So far, no such evidence has been supplied.

I would like you to supply me a picture of the sign that VCS purport to have created a contract with the driver of the vehicele and also a copy of the landowner authority, as VCS do not own the land.




Regards

Coupon-mad

Expect court papers as there have been a flurry recently. Loads of them but they are still defendable as the circumstances and signs differ from the Beavis case.

q2uantum

Hi All,

Bit of an update on this, I sent the previous letter to them and received a reply on the 29th June.

I dont have access to a scanner currently so I will type it out here:

Dear Sir

Our Client : Vehicle Control Services Limited
Account Number: VCxxxxxxx
Balance £154.00

We write in reference to the above matter and your correspondence received on the 14th June 2016, and we detail VCS's reply as follows:

The PCN was issued on the 17th January 2015 at Grove Road, Rotherham on the basis your vehicle bearing registration XXXXXXX parked without displaying a valid ticket or permit. As per the terms of the PCN, you were allowed 28 days to pay a discounted sum or appeal the PCN, two options which have now expired.

For the avoidance of doubt, you are being pursued for a payment of a PCN charge as the DVLA confirmed you were the registered keeper of the vehicle at the time and date of the contravention. As no details of the driver have been forthcoming to suggest otherwise, our client's position is that you were the driver, and refer you to the case of Elliot v Loake [1982].

We note your contention that the PCN charge of £100.00 is likely to be a penalty and is an unreasonable amount. We direct you to the leading authority of ParkingEye Limited v Beavis [2015] UKSC 67, where the Supreme Court held that PCN charges, like this charge, are not a penalty and serve a legitimate commercial interest. The relevant car parking Codes of Practice, also give guidance that £100.00 is a reasonable sum to charge.

Furthermore, our legal fee's of £54.00 are reasonable for a professional law firm dealing in this type of legal work and payment of such fees was detailed in the terms and conditions located within the Car Park.

Please note that we will not be upholding your letter as a complaint on the basis that we are not breaching the 'practice direction' nor are we misrepresenting the legal process as you suggest. Our initial letter clearly states that a county county court judgement may have an effect on your creditworthiness.

Please note that the contract between the landowner and our client is a privileged agreement and as such no copy will be provided to you. We are under no obligation to provide such a document.

However, we not that you have requested photographic evidence of signage containining the Terms and COnditions for parking within the Car Park, and we confirm that we have now requested this evidence from our client.

We have placed your account on hold whilst we await this evidence, and we will revert to you in due course

Yours faithfully

BWLegal


I received another letter from bwlegal on the 21st September, which was basically starting the process all over again (Basically the same letter as I posted earlier this year - Post 24) but with a different reference number LIT/Txxxxx instead of VCS/Txxxxx. I made the decision to ignore this letter as I was still awaiting the photographic evidence.

Today I received a final notice from them as I hadn't responded.


What do people suggest?

I was thinking of putting something similar to this to them:

Dear bwlegal,

I am writing to you today with regards to the Final Notice I have received from you today in the post.

I would like to point you to the letter I received from you dated 29th June 2016, with the reference VCS/Txxxxx, where the last paragraph reads:

“However, we note that you have requested photographic evidence of signage containing the Terms and Conditions for parking within the Car Park, and we confirm that we have no requested this from our client.

We have placed your account on hold whilst we await this evidence, and we will revert to you in due course”

As of yet, todays date is 25/10/2016, I am yet to receive the requested photographic evidence from your client, nor from yourselves.

As you may notice the reference has changed slightly, LIT instead of VCS, so I would suggest that The Litigation Team, contact you’re The Collections Team and discuss this with them.

Regards

me


I have also been down to the car park again and took the following picture of the sign as it is currently - do I mention this to them at this point or save incase they take me to court

https://postimg.org/image/u2csodutx/

Thanks in advance for any replies

q2

"I will not give in to them!"