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PCN form CPM date query

24

Comments

  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 31 January 2015 at 7:20PM
    this http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2015/01/ukcpm-issue-invalid-popla-codes.html tells you how to change the popla code generated by CPM

    you can also contact gemma ? at the BPA about it too , but the BPA advice is to change the digit

    so amend your code and check it (no need to complain in your popla appeal) - just fix it

    no idea where you get the idea that CCTV is used in private parking cases, it isnt , if any cameras are used its ANPR , not cctv

    if you click on the blue words HOW TO WIN AT POPLA in the newbies sticky thread you will see many popla appeal examples, choose the best one and adapt it

    sticky to dealing with the salient legal arguments , also bearing in mind they cannot charge for staff costs , costs of signage and any other business costs, they incur those anyway

    the HHJ Moloney case is the Beavis case which is going to the court of appeal in 3 to 4 weeks, so as its being appealed there is no outcome and its not case law

    as you did not receive the NTK by day 15 then as long as you didnt out the driver you can claim POFA 2012 and the keeper isnt liable , due to them not abiding by POFA , this is an additional appeal poing, but only if you sent an appeal like the template letter, so not identifying the driver (drivers cannot hide behind POFA 2012)

    it sounds to me as if nobody can park on this private land without a permit and anyone doing so is contractually bound and agreeing to pay £100 as a contractual fee , with a discount for early payment

    now if it is free parking for customers of those shops then you have somehow broken the rules and therefore they invoke the fee , the £100 fee is the maximum allowed by the BPA in their CoP - yes we think its excessive but it is what it is

    your popla appeal needs to put legal arguments forward such that one of them gets you off the hook - this could be poor signage , no contract with the landowner, not a gpeol , all sort of arguments and rebuttals , hence read the examples and find a good match
  • Jacqster
    Jacqster Posts: 26 Forumite
    Thanks Redx. I will do some more reading.

    I thought the camera that took a picture of my car was CCTV - I don't know the difference with ANPR.

    I sent my original letter to CPM exactly as one of the templates on here and did not out the driver. :-)

    Think the breach of their conditions was to do with parking within the lines, but it is not clear who can park there..
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 1 February 2015 at 12:09PM
    Jacqster wrote: »
    Thanks Redx. I will do some more reading.

    I thought the camera that took a picture of my car was CCTV - I don't know the difference with ANPR.

    I sent my original letter to CPM exactly as one of the templates on here and did not out the driver. :-)

    Think the breach of their conditions was to do with parking within the lines, but it is not clear who can park there..

    that is because as you say - "you havent done enough reading" , so read this

    http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/how-parking-operators-use-anpr.html

    if its free parking providing you stick to the rules, which if not within the lines you may have broken, its not the same as total exclusion unless you pay a contractual charge

    if the signage isnt clear, that would be one of your appeal points

    if the line markings are not clear , thats another appeal point

    take pictures if you can, at the same time of day or preferably with the same lighting as when it happened (so at night if it happened at night)

    what you need to do is actually do something, that something is find and adapt your own appeal using the popla examples - that way you learn as you go , clarity may come as you try to put together your own appeal, but at the moment you are drowning because you havent learnt to float, never mind learning how to paddle and steer

    you can read all the theory books in the world, but its the practicals and making mistakes that teaches you the processes

    so you have 2 options

    1) draft your bespoke appeal and fine tune it as you get critique , bearing in mind you can lean heavily on those previous appeals for inspiration and words and legal arguments

    2) pay a paid for service to do it for you , these people have done this many times so have the experience you lack (which we all lacked when we started)

    check parking pranksters site yet again if you want that service

    everything you need to know can be found on here or other sites like pepipoo , cag , parking cowboys and parking pranksters , so with the internet and google and pointers you should be able to "bone up" on any subject, which I have been doing for over 18 months now, but knew nothing about this topic 2 years ago

    once you have done your appeal and won, stick around and help others, the more you do so, the more you learn, which is what most of the regulars here have done , sadly most people are selfish and disappear once their problem is sorted, until they get another one ;)

    but as I say, if its all to much , pay somebody to do it for you , same as you might do if you had a fault on your car which needed specialised tools and knowledge, whereas you might change a sidelight bulb yourself

    ps:- dont introduce new words into a topic that were not there already , like the words FINE , CCTV etc , it complicates matters when people are looking for something that isnt there , if you dont know then say so, dont substitute words you do know for words you dont know, as usually they will be incorrect, plus they say "never assume" , as it makes an @$$ of u and me
  • Jacqster
    Jacqster Posts: 26 Forumite
    To be honest I have read loads, I have spent hours and hours at it, and now I am so confused I don't know which template to use. I haven't found a situation the same as mine so don't know what is correct. And again in one of those templates I followed a link to reference was made to CCTV, but apparently that was a winning template.

    I don't think I did use the word FINE anywhere, I am aware that this is a charge and not a fine. But I will check again.

    I was posting the details of my situation hoping someone could point me to the right template, as I am also aware that CPM word their signs differently. I was not going to use all the mitigating circumstances. But on reading through threads where people have posted POPLA appeal letters, they are being asked what the circumstances are, so these are mine.

    Ok so now I will choose a template and do my best and hope someone will give me feedback.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 2 February 2015 at 10:55AM
    you misunderstand, not only you can read this thread , advice given to people can be general so that anybody reading it will glean good info from it, like you have done or are doing from other people`s threads, and others will do with this one in the future

    nobody is going to do this for you, for free
    nobody is going to search out the right example for you, for free
    we will point you at the relevant info, leaving you to spend hours going through it

    not everything posted in replies will apply to you, you get the parts out that may apply and accept the rest as part of the learning process , apply that same logic to extracting relevant appeal points from the many examples on show (there may be none that fit your situation - yours may be the first and become an example)

    I am not saying that YOU used the word FINE, I said dont use words like CCTV and FINE as its confusing and does not apply - there is a difference !

    CCTV is not used on private property for these purposes , if it was I doubt that it could be admissable in law unless being used against the actual driver, but if you wanted legal advice then you should seek legal counsel as we are mere forum members helping out -not lawyers

    if its too much for you to do, then pay somebody with more experience to do it for you, same as you would if your car needed a new clutch but you might change a bulb yourself

    sometimes the "situation on the day" is irrelevant as your popla appeal will be based on legal argument, not "what happened on the day"

    too often people search for a "similar situation to mine" and miss the bigger picture, putting forward legal arguments in your favour is what this "game" is all about

    and yes you should be drafting up your own appeal and then getting critique for it , actually do it instead of talking about it , then fine tune to suit

    you also mentioned the word "template" at least 3 times in the last reply

    there are no "right templates" , in fact there are no templates at all , but there are examples of people who have won before, with their own drafted and amended appeals on show for you to pick over, nobody is saying they were 100% accurate , nobody is saying they havent used incorrect words like FINE and CCTV

    maybe they needed fine tuning a bit better, but they won on one point and so any dubious other points were probably ignored by the assessor (this happens all the time)

    in fact coupon-mad doesnt use the word template at all, see below
    Click on these words:


    How to win at POPLA and you will see clear adaptable examples of winning POPLA appeals, some specific to the main PPCs and others specific to Airports, Railway car parks, retail, etc.
    the trick here is to try to get to grips with the reality of the situation and draft your own appeal from the many examples on offer, basing it around your "situation" as only you know your "situation"

    I can tell you now that you will not find any popla templates on here or anywhere else - but you will find good examples of winning appeals, that may or may not be 100% accurate

    any inaccuracies in your draft will hopefully be spotted by a veteran forum member here , based around what you tell us , so hopefully it will be 100% accurate at submission, or close to 100% as possible, as has happened before in those "examples"

    it could be that your example and thread will be used to help others further down the line, whose situation may be similar but different, they may have used the words FINE and CCTV and TEMPLATE for example, so why would I leave stuff out just because you may have not mentioned it ? (I have had cars with cigarette lighters and ash trays yet I dont smoke ! - so why did they fit them ?)

    think of this as like going to the library to do a research project, asking the librarian where the books and documents are on your chosen subject - they will point you to the right section and books, they wont try to understand your project , they wont find the right books you need , they wont read those books for you and extract the correct info for your project , they wont write it for you , they wont correct mistakes for you, they wont find an exact tome that fits your needs perfectly either , - they are there to point you in the right direction - they also get paid for doing this too

    you need to see the bigger picture, learn the rules of this "game" and either fight it yourself or pay others to do so for you, on your behalf , that is my advice (its also what I did some 18 months ago when I was learning all about this - for 2 parking invoices/charges - both of which were cancelled or won at popla)

    if you choose the latter, try pranksters website or parking cowboys for further details

    this post (and my previous ones) is to try to help you (and others reading it) understand the actual basics of this topic , to put forward the facts in as simple a set of terms as possible, nothing else should be drawn for it, nothing is implied, its merely the facts of the case and topic as I see them

    good luck
  • Mike172
    Mike172 Posts: 313 Forumite
    Ironic coming from me but.... relax. You're over thinking this.

    UKCPM (I assume is CPM) are not difficult to deal with. Basically your POPLA appeal needs to cover some basic points and thats it. You can copy and paste some of mine if needed and submit.

    PS. Be careful with the date on the POPLA code. I submitted mine with the 7th digit as a 4 (as was provided) and my appeal was rejected. i resubmitted but I suspect Ill get another rejection. Change it to a 5.
    Mike172 vs. UKCPM
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  • Guys_Dad
    Guys_Dad Posts: 11,025 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    It is also worth reading the POPLA DECISIONS thread - but from the last post back for a few pages. You will see some winning appeals included and many POPLA adjudications.

    That should give you (a) some confidence and (b) some templates to add to the others in the NEWBIES thread.

    It really isn't that difficult to put a POPLA appeal together and if you see some that have already won..........................................
  • Jacqster
    Jacqster Posts: 26 Forumite
    edited 2 February 2015 at 9:08PM
    Mike172 I have been following your progress with CPM and I definitely will, pinch some ideas from you, thank you.
    Thanks also to Guys Dad, I have looked at the winners, but will look again with fresh eyes. Think. Just got overwhelmed with all of it really.
    And thanks again to Redx, sorry I'm a pain, I just don't have an awful lot of time and I stress really easily.
  • Redx
    Redx Posts: 38,084 Forumite
    Eighth Anniversary 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    edited 2 February 2015 at 9:57PM
    deffo pinch ideas going through the same or similar scenarios

    just dont over think it , which you have done so far

    until you actually draft up your appeal and post it on here for perusal , nothing more will happen apart from telling you to do so and to do more reading, but ultimately you will have to draft up an appeal if you are doing it DIY (it wont be done for you for free)

    if passing it to PTA , they will want full info anyway , and some money too , to pay for their stress levels ;)

    also bear in mind to find the time to do this, you are trying to save £100 by doing this and at minimum wage the net result is say 25 to 30 hours work to earn it in cash, so well worth the time and effort on your part, but not for us as we give the advice free ;)
  • I'm not expecting anyone to do it for me and I do appreciate the help.
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