PCN form CPM date query

Jacqster

Well I've read the sticky thread for newbies and I'm going to send of the letter. Thanks for that.

My query is about dates, I didn't quite follow...
My car was parked on private land on 16 December 2014, the PCN was issued on 24 December 2014. There is no post mark or letter date but I did not receive it until 9 January 2015. Seems an awfully long time to me....

I am so angry about all of this... How can a Chinese takeaway have a private car park that is not for the use of their customers and is not well lit and the signs are difficult to see.... I'm afraid before I read any forums I called them and asked why I'd got a ticket if I was a customer, they said private property, no parking, take it up with CPM, said I wouldn't be going there again, they hung up.

The reason I am really mad is I went there the other day before I got the PCN through the post so I am waiting on another....if the first had been more timely I wouldn't have done it again???

I definitely won't buy food from them again. :mad::mad:

Want to post a picture of it...how do I do that?

Umkomaas

Was this a notification through the post only, or are they suggesting a windscreen ticket was attached to your car?

Any photos of your car? If so, were they taken from a pole mounted ANPR camera, with a separate blow-up representation of your number plate? Or was it a hand-held camera shot (more like a holiday snap)?

Want to post a picture of it...how do I do that?

To upload a photo/scan, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (Photobucket or Tinypic), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp (or remove it all together) and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload photos/scans until they've got a few posts under their belt.

Jacqster

Thanks for the quick reply.

The camera is wall mounted and there is no close uo of the the number plate, In fact it's quite difficult to read the number plate because of the camera angle.

No they do not imply there was anything on the windscreen. This is the first notice I have received.

Never mind the photo...

Thanks

Umkomaas

I'll assume it's via ANPR camera then.

Send off the initial appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, and make it clear that the receipt of the NtK on 9 January times them out to invoke keeper liability and they must therefore pursue the driver. You are under absolutely no obligation to tell them who that was.

Do not indicate who was driving like saying 'I didn't see the signs' or anything like that. Use the appeal template 'as is.' don't attempt any embellishment (other than the bit about the dates above). Whilst Christmas and New Year intervened, PoFA provides no latitude for missing the 14 (calendar) days deadline after the parking event to invoke keeper liability.

Chances are the PPC will completely ignore this (but POPLA shouldn't - and you've put the marker down in your initial appeal) and the PPC will reject your appeal. A POPLA code from the PPC is your main objective at this stage, so don't be knocked back with an initial rejection.

HTH

Jacqster

Well I got my rejection letter from CPM. So I'm now starting to wade through the process. Firstly the POPLA code checked gives me this message...

Deadline information
You have missed the deadline to appeal!
Your deadline was on the Thu Feb 20 2014
Your deadline passed 339 day(s) ago
Grounds for complaint
This code was generated 365 day(s) before the date of your appeal rejection letter. This means that you have not been given the full 28 days to appeal that you are entitled to under the British Parking Association's Code of Practice. Please consider making a complaint.

Any ideas what I should do please. Seems to be a mistake somewhere... The alleged offence took place on 16 dec 2014 and I received a PCN through the post on 9 January. Not sure how this information leaves me.

Jacqster

Well I got my rejection letter from CPM. So I'm now starting to wade through the process. Firstly the POPLA code checked gives me this message...

Deadline information
You have missed the deadline to appeal!
Your deadline was on the Thu Feb 20 2014
Your deadline passed 339 day(s) ago
Grounds for complaint
This code was generated 365 day(s) before the date of your appeal rejection letter. This means that you have not been given the full 28 days to appeal that you are entitled to under the British Parking Association's Code of Practice. Please consider making a complaint.

Any ideas what I should do please. Seems to be a mistake somewhere... The alleged offence took place on 16 Dec 2014 and I received a PCN through the post on 9 January. Not sure how this information leaves me.

Any help would be gratefully received.

Redx

the year has changed to jan 2015 and they havent changed their code generation to match , complain to them and to the BPA aos compliance section

we got a spate of these last year for the same reasons

Jacqster

Thank you, I assumed that was what had happened, but can I use this to fight my case?

Redx

only popla and the BPA can tell you that , but I would double check and complain if its wrong , no excuse for them giving out 12 month old codes, plus if they have done it to you they will be doing it to everyone else too

ps:- same problem on this thread too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5157880

Jacqster

I'm reading through their letter again and their issue seems to be:

The vehicle did not park within a designated bay/parking area.
The photographic evidence supports that. (My car was parked too far forward - but the driver doesn't think the lines were that obvious).

Signage clearly states NO PARKING OUTSIDE OF A DESIGNATED PARKING AREA/PARKING BAY - (but the driver didn't see the sign in the dark that is also partly obscured by a drain pipe...

They go on to state that although the driver probably doesn't feel their parking would impede others...and they give examples. But this is nonsense because being parked a few inches too far forward really would not hinder any traffic or pedestrians as there is no rhyme or reason to the lines apart from to catch people out.

They state that my letter is taken from forums and is outdated and inaccurate and quote HHJ Moloney QC.

They go on to say that the signage would have been clear and visible from where my car was parked - dispute that as the parking area is poorly lit at that time of night and the sign is partly obscured.

They are asking for evidence of why I believe the charge to be exceeding the appropriate amount. They then detail a breakdown of costs including: postage and printing, customer services, telephone expenses, staff wages, NI. fuel expenses, cost of appeal adjudicator, management, quality control, evidence gathering, appeals, legal accounting and IT, DVLA fees and processing costs, supervisory staff and vehicles, training, uniforms, mobile patrols, cameras, signage, enforcement equipment.... all of which exceeds the £100 they would like me to pay.

They then helpfully advise me how to appeal through POPLA. I need to address the fact that the POPLA code offered was incorrect as it expired a year ago - think someone forgot to change the year when it was generated. So I have no idea how long I have to submit an appeal.

They fail to address however my point about the NTK arriving on 9 January, alleged offence was 16th December and their issue date was 24 December - so although the letter took 24 days to reach me, it didn't stand much of a chance as it was not even composed until some 8 days after the event.

Considering my car was only parked long enough to get money out of a cash machine and get a takeaway £100 is excessive. The parking area appears to belong to the takeaways that are next to it and would seem to be for customer use but I don't feel the signage is clear enough.

There was no sign to advise either that I was on CCTV, did I read somewhere that had to be stated/announced?

ANY advice would be gratefully received. Many thanks

Jacqster

What does this mean? (from the sticky thread):

"Just be careful if your PPC is someone like Napier, Combined Parking Solutions, District Enforcement or another one which words their signage as a contractual fee to park (rather than 'breach of contract')."


My PCN is from CPM and states on the signage:

"TERMS OF PARKING WITHOUT PERMISSION.
You do so at your own risk to property and personal injury and you are contractually agreeing to pay a parking charge fee.
THE FOLLOWING FEES APPLY
PARKING CHARGE NOTICE......£100 Per Day
or the reduced sum of £60 if payment is made within 14 days."

Afraid I will trip myself up with their wording...