We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.

This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.

📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!

Railways, Tramways, Busways, Driverless Vehicles

I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

And what is the big deal about BusWays? Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?

We hear a lot about the development of driverless cars, but it is hard to imagine how they will be able to share road space with non-automated road users - the game of Chicken will become even more fun when children can be certain that they are no longer in real danger.

IMO, the perfect test-bed for driverless vehicles would be the lightly-used rural railway branch lines - let’s uproot the antiquated rail system, and replace it, initially, with driverless buses (so far as I know, there is no problem with the braking systems of modern buses). If it can be made to work, then the future possibilities would be endless.
mad mocs - the pavement worrier
«134567

Comments

  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

    I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

    And what is the big deal about BusWays? Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?

    We hear a lot about the development of driverless cars, but it is hard to imagine how they will be able to share road space with non-automated road users - the game of Chicken will become even more fun when children can be certain that they are no longer in real danger.

    IMO, the perfect test-bed for driverless vehicles would be the lightly-used rural railway branch lines - let’s uproot the antiquated rail system, and replace it, initially, with driverless buses (so far as I know, there is no problem with the braking systems of modern buses). If it can be made to work, then the future possibilities would be endless.
    Is there no place in your utopia for driverless trains?

    That technology is already proven and working well.
  • wealdroam wrote: »
    Is there no place in your utopia for driverless trains?

    That technology is already proven and working well.
    Bring it on! Does the existing technology include interaction with other systems?
    mad mocs - the pavement worrier
  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    And what is the big deal about BusWays?
    Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.


    Why are BusWays better than an ordinary road which is only accessible by buses?
    Eh?

    Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.
  • wealdroam wrote: »
    Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.

    Yes - but who has to give way at level crossings?




    Eh?

    Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.
    Yes - so why is it necessary for the buses to be 'guided' by expensive additional engineering? I genuinely don't understand.
    mad mocs - the pavement worrier
  • wealdroam wrote: »
    Some will say that they work because there is no other traffic in the way.




    Eh?

    Surely a busway is a road which is only accessible by buses... almost by definition.

    The OP may have been talking about guided busways like this one in Cambridge


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridgeshire_Guided_Busway
    "If you no longer go for a gap, you are no longer a racing driver" - Ayrton Senna
  • martindow
    martindow Posts: 10,620 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    A busway like the one at Cambridge is reserved for buses fitted with equipment to use it. I assume that it is cheaper to construct with the guidance system as it can then be made using far less concrete than a normal roadway.

    https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6090/6159657027_748fe47d39_z.jpg
  • wealdroam
    wealdroam Posts: 19,180 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    The OP may have been talking about guided busways like this one in Cambridge


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridgeshire_Guided_Busway

    Yes, it is possible that he was talking about that.

    However, he may well have been talking about unguided busways like the one between Fareham and Gosport.

    He has now clarified that.
  • esuhl
    esuhl Posts: 9,409 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Yes - so why is it necessary for the buses to be 'guided' by expensive additional engineering? I genuinely don't understand.

    I didn't either, but it sounds like its done to limit the road width that buses would otherwise need, allowing disused railway tracks to be converted for bus use... and maybe allowing smaller (cheaper) tunnels to be built.

    It probably also prevents other motorists from clogging up the bus lanes.

    I can't really see guided busways being useful in most situations... but I'm sure there are some.
    Why is a guided bus better than a normal bus?

    Because the guided bus is kept within a guideway, it can travel safely at cruising speed within a narrower space. A normal bus would either need a wider road, or need to travel much slower. This makes a difference if a bus is on a disused rail alignment (of which there are many in the UK). Similarly, tunnels can be constructed to a narrower width, and so be less costly.
    Guided busways also give a smoother ride than the normal road. There are none of the dips at the side of the road for drains, while the construction is to a high standard.
    The reserved track means there is no other traffic to cause delays. The service is swift, punctual and reliable
    http://www.londonguidedbusway.co.uk/why-a-guided-busway.php
  • Johnmcl7
    Johnmcl7 Posts: 2,842 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    edited 20 January 2015 at 12:56AM
    I started a thread recently about branch line Railway Level Crossings, and the consensus seems to be that the braking systems of modern railway trains cannot be relied upon. To me, this seems to be no less ridiculous than the idea that HGV drivers are routinely unable to see what is happening alongside the nearside length of their vehicle.

    I don’t get out much these days, and so I have never seen the modern tram systems of some UK cities. How do modern trams deal with emergency stops? How did old-fashioned trams deal with emergency stops?

    There's nothing wrong with the braking systems of modern trains, they take a while to stop as they have a huge amount of momentum due to their huge weight and high speeds.

    Trams are usually comparatively small and their speeds are low when compared to small passenger trains never mind larger high speed passenger trains or some of the huge freight trains. As far as I'm aware they're all electric as well so they don't have to carry a diesel engine for power as many trains do.

    John
  • Throbbe
    Throbbe Posts: 469 Forumite
    esuhl wrote: »
    I didn't either, but it sounds like its done to limit the road width that buses would otherwise need, allowing disused railway tracks to be converted for bus use... and maybe allowing smaller (cheaper) tunnels to be built.

    You've got it. On guided busways the buses can pass closer together at speed which saves on the width of the required corridor. 0.5m might not sound a lot, but over several km that's a lot of land to surface (and possibly purchase).

    The other selling point is the ride quality of a concrete guideway compared to a bitmac road surface.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 352.1K Banking & Borrowing
  • 253.5K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 454.2K Spending & Discounts
  • 245.1K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 600.7K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 177.4K Life & Family
  • 258.9K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.2K Discuss & Feedback
  • 37.6K Read-Only Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.