Railways, Tramways, Busways, Driverless Vehicles

Southend1

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the braking systems of modern trains, they take a while to stop as they have a huge amount of momentum due to their huge weight and high speeds.

Trams are usually comparatively small and their speeds are low when compared to small passenger trains never mind larger high speed passenger trains or some of the huge freight trains. As far as I'm aware they're all electric as well so they don't have to carry a diesel engine for power as many trains do.

John

Also trains run steel wheels on steel rails for low rolling resistance. However in low adhesion conditions e.g. The well known leaves on the line their stopping distance can be considerably further. Technology such as ABS can prevent wheels from locking up and improve stopping distances but it can't override the laws of physics.

Pennywise

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with the braking systems of modern trains, they take a while to stop as they have a huge amount of momentum due to their huge weight and high speeds.

I think that's the point though, that the small rural lines being talked about don't have long heavy trains - they're usually 1 or 2 carriage Pacers or Sprinters that aren't reaching high speeds. A one carriage train at 10-20 mph will be able to stop fairly quickly, and much more quickly than a long Pendolino or Container train going at 75mph +.

It does seem a little crazy to have infrastructure based on long, fast heavy trains, i.e. full level crossings and signalling systems, for slow rural lines with short trains. It seems to be all or nothing.

Would make sense to have relaxed rules, along the lines of light railways and tramways, for slow and rural lines that don't have the long, fast, heavy trains.

modsandmockers

Thanks for the explanations about the advantages of a guided busway - it uses less land because it enables buses to pass each other closer than otherwise, and it requires only the 'tyre's width' of hard surface, which is cheaper to install and easier to drain.

My next question is this - are busways (unlike railways) subject to the same regulations as highways?

I believe that busway 'level crossings' are controlled by traffic lights in much the same way as any conventional crossroads. That is to say that the bus driver needs a green light before he/she can claim priority over the opposing traffic. Yes - the lights are automatically switched to green as the bus approaches, but if, for whatever reason, the light stays red, or fails completely, then I would guess that the bus driver will be expected to behave in the same way as a conventional road user. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have been in favour of driverless transport systems for years, but I don't think it will ever be possible for driverless vehicles to share space with anything except other driverless vehicles.

I can imagine a motorway being equipped with some kind of computer-controlled underground or overhead remote control system which would automatically take over from the vehicle's driver whilst the vehicle is still on the slip road. The driver would then be able to sit back, open the laptop, read the paper, talk on the phone etc whilst the computer system would organise the motorway's traffic flows.

Throbbe

modsandmockers wrote: »

My next question is this - are busways (unlike railways) subject to the same regulations as highways?

They're not 'Highway' in the sense that the Highways Act applies, but are instead established by a specific Order.

However, yes, the signalised junctions do operate exactly like a signalised highway junction.

Johnmcl7

Pennywise wrote: »

I think that's the point though, that the small rural lines being talked about don't have long heavy trains - they're usually 1 or 2 carriage Pacers or Sprinters that aren't reaching high speeds. A one carriage train at 10-20 mph will be able to stop fairly quickly, and much more quickly than a long Pendolino or Container train going at 75mph +.

Even the small DMU's though need their own power units and are substantially faster than trams both in their normal running speed and their top speed (the slowest here where the lines are all rural are almost double the speed of a tram), it's not going to be remotely viable for them to drop down to the speeds trams do in shared areas just for level crossings.

John

modsandmockers

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Even the small DMU's though need their own power units and are substantially faster than trams both in their normal running speed and their top speed (the slowest here where the lines are all rural are almost double the speed of a tram), it's not going to be remotely viable for them to drop down to the speeds trams do in shared areas just for level crossings.

John

Why?

What does 'just for level crossings' mean? Why should dozens of road-users be held up for several minutes 'just for a (nearly empty/1 or 2 carriage) train'?

Pennywise

Johnmcl7 wrote: »

Even the small DMU's though need their own power units and are substantially faster than trams both in their normal running speed and their top speed (the slowest here where the lines are all rural are almost double the speed of a tram), it's not going to be remotely viable for them to drop down to the speeds trams do in shared areas just for level crossings.

John

Why not when the level crossings in question are adjacent to stations where all the trains stop anyway, so they'll be going no more than 10mph?

There's no earthly reason why such crossings need to be shut for soooo looooong before the only trains that use the line crawl through at barely more than walking pace!

flicks

I think the whole idea of driverless vehicles should be disposed of.


Not just through safety reasons but for employment reasons.


As a Train driver I would be out of a job if there were driverless trains and when you add up the amount of Train drivers and Bus drivers who would be out of work it doesn't bear thinking about.


I guess when I'm retired and mortgage free I may consider joining the, "let's get people out of work", brigade but in the meantime it's a no from me.

molerat

Driver less trains cannot fall asleep at the controls and miss a stop
Driver less trains don't walk out if they don't get their promised cup of tea in the morning
Driver less trains are never late for work throwing the whole network into chaos
Driver less trains .........

Pennywise

flicks wrote: »

As a Train driver I would be out of a job if there were driverless trains and when you add up the amount of Train drivers and Bus drivers who would be out of work it doesn't bear thinking about.

But you're happy to benefit from all the automation that has led other people to lose their jobs? Nimbyism at it's worst I'm afraid.