Old FENSA certificate

TheCyclingProgrammer

I just wanted to check something before I got back to my solicitor.

Our one outstanding enquiry is a missing FENSA certificate for windows that predates our vendors ownership. It dates from 2002, just after FENSA came in.

The vendors solicitors have stated our vendors do not have it and due to the age they will not be providing it.

I've checked on the FENSA website and can see the certificate exists although I've not paid for it and checked it.

Their solicitor seems to have a point, I can't see what use seeing it is after so long, so assuming our lender isn't bothered, is there any reason to bother pursuing this that I might be missing?

EmmyLou30

Any FENSA guarantee is only valid for 10 years so really no point in having it. Don't bother holding up the sale to chase it. Though your vendors were pretty silly not to chase it when they made their purchase inside the 10 year window!

TheCyclingProgrammer

EmmyLou30 wrote: »

Any FENSA guarantee is only valid for 10 years so really no point in having it. Don't bother holding up the sale to chase it. Though your vendors were pretty silly not to chase it when they made their purchase inside the 10 year window!

I thought FENSA was more to do with building reg compliance (self-certification) than any guarantees on the windows? I agree that any guarantees are likely to be long expired, but presumably building control could no longer take enforcement action right?

G_M

Yes -it's Building Regs.

But given there's no way the council is suddenly going to demand the windows be re-fitted, forget it.

Are you satisfied the windows are of a good enough quality for you? After al, that's what BRs/FENSA is about.

TheCyclingProgrammer

G_M wrote: »

Are you satisfied the windows are of a good enough quality for you? After al, that's what BRs/FENSA is about.

Fine for me - our survey raised the point that the front upstairs windows have an inadequate means of escape but the two back windows on the house do. We'll probably replace them at some point but not in any hurry (the house I grew up in has no escapable windows upstairs!).

I'm just waiting for solicitor to confirm that they/lender have no problem proceeding without it.

Out of curiosity, is there an actual legal limit on when a council can take retrospective enforcement action? I've never been able to find a definitive answer to this but I've seen "6 years" bandied about.

TheCyclingProgrammer

So this is what my solicitor has to say on the matter:

Due to recent case law, local authorities are able to enforce on matter of Building Regulations at any time by way of an injunction. So although the regulatory enforcement period has passed, there is still a possibility of enforcement by way of injunction. It is therefore important to obtain this certification as the works are not that old.

I suppose I can still tell them to go ahead without it but maybe it will be easier to just bypass the vendor's unhelpful/obstinate solicitors and speak to the estate agent - I'm sure a quick word to the vendor asking them to buy the certificate and forward via their solicitors would be easier.

Hoploz

Surely evidence it existed is sufficient. It is invalid nw anyway. Pointless asking for a copy

TheCyclingProgrammer

Hoploz wrote: »

Surely evidence it existed is sufficient. It is invalid nw anyway. Pointless asking for a copy

Why is it invalid? Is it not still evidence that the windows conformed with building regulations at the time?

G_M

https://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/responsibilities/buildingregulations/failure

Enforcement Notices & Fines
The local authority has a general duty to enforce the Building Regulations in its area and will seek to do so by informal means wherever possible.
Where an approved inspector is providing the Building Control Service, the responsibility for checking that the Building Regulations are complied with during the course of your building work will lie with that inspector. They will usually do this by advising you. However, approved inspectors do not have enforcement powers. Instead, the regulations provide that in a situation where they consider your building work does not comply with the Building Regulations they will not issue you with a final certificate and in addition will cancel the initial notice by notifying your local authority. If no other approved inspector takes on the work, the Building Control Service will automatically be taken on by your local authority. From this point on your local authority will also have enforcement powers to require you to alter your work, if they consider this necessary.
If a person carrying out building work contravenes the Building Regulations, the local authority or another person may decide to take them to the magistrates' court where they could be fined up to £5000 for the contravention, and up to £50 for each day the contravention continues after conviction (section 35 of the Building Act 1984). This action will usually be taken against the builder or main contractor, and proceedings must be taken within two years from the completion of the work. Alternatively, or in addition, the local authority may serve an enforcement notice on the owner requiring them to alter or remove work which contravenes the regulations (section 36 of the 1984 Act). If the owner does not comply with the notice the local authority has the power to undertake the work itself and recover the costs of doing so from the owner.
A section 36 enforcement notice cannot be served on you after the expiration of 12 months from the date of completion of the building work,

but this does not affect a local authority's (or any other person's) right to apply to the Courts for an injunction for the same purpose.

So 12 months for a S36 Notice.

Or any time for a court injunction. In reality, Local authorities would only seek a court injunction where there was

*not only a lack of Building Regulations
* but also a danger resulting from the construction
* and the public were at risk

Example: a Developer builds a Shopping Mall using inferior materials or design, so that the Mall roof might collapse onto the shoppers within. If this came to the LA's attention, they would seek an injunction.

Or perhaps where the lack of BRs for a window came to light as part of an investigation into a whole host of other more serious breaches.

They do not send inspectors randomly into people's private homes (see this thread here!) to check if their windows comply with BRs!

TheCyclingProgrammer

Well, I've asked both the EA to speak to the vendor and I've also sent a message to my solicitors asking if we can still proceed without it. If either say yes, then problem sorted.

Obviously if the vendor refuses or the solicitor insists we will have to just buy the damn piece of paper ourselves but the whole thing is annoying me. I know my solicitor only has mine and the lender's interests in mind but still.

LannieDuck

We've had to provide a FENSA certificate for our house sale for 1 window that we replaced 5 years ago. Unfortunately, our builders aren't replying to my messages (I suspect they are unable to provide the certificate and are dodging me).

Instead of chasing and worrying about it, we're taking out indemnity through our solicitors. It's costing £80.