sole trader won't pay - what can i do?

Mistral001

Perhaps then if you bought the machine off the customer for £1, you could sell it and make more than what is outstanding. That might be the best option. Even if you gave him £500 you might still make a a fair return.


PS: The £1 is important as if you just mutually agreed that you should keep the machine without any money changing hands, , then ownership of the machine could be disputed at some later date. If money (even of just £1) changes hand then a contract has been formed. ie. the three parts of a contract, an offer (to by machine for £1) an acceptance of that offer and consideration (legal term for something of value ie. the £1) are in place.

Savvy_Sue

The lesson for the future, of course, is that you ask for part-payment along the way if things take a while or are starting to get expensive.

connect21

Mistral001 wrote: »

Perhaps then if you bought the machine off the customer for £1, you could sell it and make more than what is outstanding. That might be the best option. Even if you gave him £500 you might still make a a fair return.


PS: The £1 is important as if you just mutually agreed that you should keep the machine without any money changing hands, , then ownership of the machine could be disputed at some later date. If money (even of just £1) changes hand then a contract has been formed. ie. the three parts of a contract, an offer (to by machine for £1) an acceptance of that offer and consideration (legal term for something of value ie. the £1) are in place.

It would be worth it if the machine wasn't so old and so we would only get about £1.5k - half of what is owed. There aren't many of these machines out there this old and working, only newer models, hence the second hand value difference.
We would prefer to go through the courts and try and reclaim the full amount, but not sure if this is the way to go?

Mistral001

I suppose it depends on how often you do this type of work. If you expect to get this type of work in the future, then it might be worthwhile to follow it right through to a conclusion through the small claims courts. At least whatever way it ends, you will have had first-hand experience of the legalities which will help you in avoiding this situation in the future.

connect21

Does anyone have any suggestions on checking who the proprietor actually is and if he has any assets/house to pay the debt or is that sort of information not available for sole traders? Thanks to everyone for all the advice, very helpful.

Marktheshark

If he refuses to pay are you refusing to give the machine back ?
That is a lien and once you start a lien goods you move in to different law of common law and case Law.
To pursue charges via county court you should return the machine and invoice for the work.
You can do one or the other but both wont wash at county court.
You may even end up out of pocket if he argues the machine you have liens on is worth more than the bill.

connect21

Marktheshark wrote: »

If he refuses to pay are you refusing to give the machine back ?
That is a lien and once you start a lien goods you move in to different law of common law and case Law.
To pursue charges via county court you should return the machine and invoice for the work.
You can do one or the other but both wont wash at county court.
You may even end up out of pocket if he argues the machine you have liens on is worth more than the bill.

Oh really, I wasn't aware of that. He told us to keep the truck but we will still be out of pocket but didn't realise the implications - so that changes things slightly now. We wouldn't want to return the machine as we know we would be more out of pocket with no guarantee on any payment. If we went down the 'lien' route, can you advise what is involved at all?

bris

You don't need to go down the lien route but neither do you have to give him it back. Just go straight to MYCOL the email trail you have is enough to prove the debt exists so you won't lose and the relatively small cost in comparison to the debt is worth it.


Just take the individual to court it will soon become apparent if he was acting for a limited co or not, if not he is liable and his assets can be seized, just hope he has more than the item involved.

Savvy_Sue

connect21 wrote: »

We would prefer to go through the courts and try and reclaim the full amount, but not sure if this is the way to go?

You'll need to establish if it's a 'can't pay' or 'won't pay' situation, and you'll need to establish if he is a sole trader, or a limited company.

In theory, I believe that any written communication from a limited company (including emails) should make it clear that it IS a limited company, and give full contact details.

connect21 wrote: »

Oh really, I wasn't aware of that. He told us to keep the truck but we will still be out of pocket but didn't realise the implications - so that changes things slightly now. We wouldn't want to return the machine as we know we would be more out of pocket with no guarantee on any payment. If we went down the 'lien' route, can you advise what is involved at all?

I suggest you get some paid for legal advice, what you're getting here cannot be relied on, as in you can't sue the pants off any of us if we get this wrong.

Mattygroves2

connect21 wrote: »

Does anyone have any suggestions on checking who the proprietor actually is and if he has any assets/house to pay the debt or is that sort of information not available for sole traders? Thanks to everyone for all the advice, very helpful.

The only person you can sue is the person your invoice is made out to. I suspect it will be difficult to work out whether he has got assets or not but you won't find out until you get to court.