Cant afford to pay apprentice

Rhia242

Hello, I am desperate for advice, we are in a very bad place. My husband has a history of mental health problems. In 2013 he had a bad heart attack and that affected his ability to do his job - he is a self employed electrician. We took on an apprentice to help him, which worked for a while, it was a big help but it never resulted in more sales or profit, in fact things just went slowly downhill gradually. We were just about getting by when the apprentice turned 25 and suddenly we had to pay him £845 a month. That was in September last year. It very quickly became apparent that we couldn't afford to do this and we actually let him go in December. Meanwhile my husband was not coping with anything and had another breakdown in December. He is now not working at all. We are two months behind on our rent and owe loads of other people. Our rent is £700 a month and I earn £1060. We are now making arrangements to move in with my sister next month. My husband also has a degenerative eye condition, so all in all I don't expect him to work again, although he is only 51. I am working full time but trying to get some more work.
Sorry to ramble on, my question is this: what do we do about the apprentice? We owe him about £1200. He has got another job thank goodness. He is starting to chase us for the money and no doubt he doesn't believe that we really don't have it. We really don't. We have used up all our savings, what little we had. We are struggling just to buy food and petrol. Presumably he can take us to court. I feel really bad and I am scared of getting taken to a tribunal. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you

McKneff

presumably, once you move in with family you will have less outgoings.


He should be claiming ESA together with your salary things shouldn't be too bad.


Could you speak to the apprentice and offer a payment plan

FireWyrm

Yes he can take you to court and rightly so. He did the work, you have had his labour, but now you say you cannot pay him. It depends how you took him on, but if he was an employee of the business, then he should get first dibs on the assets when it is wound up. Theoretically, you could walk away from this and just because a court says you have to pay, doesnt mean you can. I am in two minds. Having been screwed over by employers myself and left twist in the wind when they claimed they couldnt pay me for my labour. If I were the apprentice, I'd take you to court. However, you seem genuinely in trouble and perhaps this isnt entirely your fault. That said, morally speaking, you should pay him, by whatever means necessary, even if it means you are left uncomfortable. I would be inclined to take out an unsecured loan and pay the poor lad off. Yes, you'll end up with some heat and perhaps even a default or CCJ, but that isnt his fault and he should not pay for your mis-fortune and to some extend mis-management of the business in that your husband did not make provision for paying the lad ahead of time.

Rhia242

Gosh, that feels harsh. We have no intention of walking away from the debt at all, its just difficult at the moment to see a way through. We have no credit cards and we have applied for three different types of loan and been refused. Yes we probably have been stupid, I stupidly had cancer and couldn't work for a year, he stupidly had a heart attack and two breakdowns. Our biggest mistake has been trying to cope with everything over the last 10 years without claiming anything from anyone. Thank you McKneff, I am looking into the possibility of ESA.

GrumpyPL

Hi Rhia424,

Why not invite the lad over for a cup of tea/coffee and sit down and talk to him properly, work out something with him whereby you agree to pay him xxx per month. He'd probably appreciate the efforts to come to an arrangement, if he doesn't inform him that he'll have to take the matter to court. If he wants to do that, he'll probably win but if you're having genuine financial problems the court will probably order a lesser repayment plan than you offered him in the first place.

Takeaway_Addict

Rhia242 wrote: »

Gosh, that feels harsh. We have no intention of walking away from the debt at all, its just difficult at the moment to see a way through. We have no credit cards and we have applied for three different types of loan and been refused. Yes we probably have been stupid, I stupidly had cancer and couldn't work for a year, he stupidly had a heart attack and two breakdowns. Our biggest mistake has been trying to cope with everything over the last 10 years without claiming anything from anyone. Thank you McKneff, I am looking into the possibility of ESA.

You need to make an arrangement with the apprentice and keep to it, offer £50 a month or so if that is all you can afford and set a direct debit up to keep it going.

I guess your OH was acting as a sole trader rather than a ltd company, if it were the latter things would be alot easier on you.

FireWyrm

Rhia242 wrote: »

Yes we probably have been stupid, I stupidly had cancer and couldn't work for a year, he stupidly had a heart attack and two breakdowns. Our biggest mistake has been trying to cope with everything over the last 10 years without claiming anything from anyone. .

None of which is legally his concern. It is however, legally your concern to pay him. If you didnt have the money to pay him, you should not have taken him on or led him to believe he would be paid for his labour. It was grossly unfair of you to do so. He, like most employees, trust their employer to be solvent. Luckily, he only lost a thousand or so and seems to be not too inconvenienced by it - but if he had a family and bills of his own to pay and you *couldnt* pay him? As I said, in two minds. I've been cheated by employers before and the employee has almost no recourse since legal advice is not free in this case.

I answered your question. You are morally obliged to pay him and yes, he can take you to court in which case you will be legally obliged too. However, depending on how you employed him, his rights to money resulting from the winding up may not be quite so straight forward and you *could* almost walk away and there is almost nothing he can do about it. It depends on how annoyed he is with you frankly.

Drunk_Monkey

GrumpyPL wrote: »

Hi Rhia424,

Why not invite the lad over for a cup of tea/coffee and sit down and talk to him properly, work out something with him whereby you agree to pay him xxx per month. He'd probably appreciate the efforts to come to an arrangement, if he doesn't inform him that he'll have to take the matter to court. If he wants to do that, he'll probably win but if you're having genuine financial problems the court will probably order a lesser repayment plan than you offered him in the first place.

What does the "lad" want a cup of tea for? He wants to get paid. And he doesn't want a payment plan either. (I am slightly disgusted that you find paying the "lad" less than the agreed amount due to a court judgement as something to ":)" over). He has his own bills and he has probably had to ask his family to help him out between jobs. The OP has screwed him over ...

That poor "apprentice" has learnt a valuable lesson here ...

Time_to_face_the_music

"Pls remember Debt-Free Wannabe's for support and help not judgement
Dear MoneySavers.... Debt Free Wannabe is one of my favourite boards on this site. It's also one which runs a delicate balance. Many people who have serious debts have hidden them for a time, been scared to confront them, suffered depression or have even had suicidal thoughts because of them. While elsewhere on the site robust discussion is welcomed, in Debt Free Wannabe may I politely ask MoneySavers to err on the side of kindness. Of course many are in debt due to over-spending, financial illiteracy, or mismanagement of money (and some through no fault, only due to change of circumstance). Yet the fact they are here means they're looking for help, guidance and to take charge of their finances - and that in itself is admirable Please use your knowledge and kindness to help rather than to berate. This board often has the power to move me to tears with the sheer power of the community that's grown and I hope it will continue. If you feel it’s important to point something out that the poster may find negative but needs to understand, then it's not a problem, but do think carefully about your phrasing - people can be very sensitive and nuances may mislead when it’s in an online Forum. I love this forum. Many have been and seen through their debts. Yet as it gets larger it's easy for the 'anonymity' of posting to mean as well as protecting users, it's easy to 'post and leave'. I hope this note may act as a wee reminder what it's all about. Martin!"

:money: < what Martin says!

Takeaway_Addict

Drunk_Monkey wrote: »

What does the "lad" want a cup of tea for? He wants to get paid. And he doesn't want a payment plan either. (I am slightly disgusted that you find paying the "lad" less than the agreed amount due to a court judgement as something to ":)" over). He has his own bills and he has probably had to ask his family to help him out between jobs. The OP has screwed him over ...

That poor "apprentice" has learnt a valuable lesson here ...

what he wants and what he gets are two different things...

Talking is far better than head in the sand approach and if the monies are paid eventually via a payment plan then this is a good thing

GrumpyPL

Drunk_Monkey wrote: »

What does the "lad" want a cup of tea for? He wants to get paid. And he doesn't want a payment plan either. (I am slightly disgusted that you find paying the "lad" less than the agreed amount due to a court judgement as something to ":)" over). He has his own bills and he has probably had to ask his family to help him out between jobs. The OP has screwed him over ...

That poor "apprentice" has learnt a valuable lesson here ...

It's a polite way to try and fix things with somebody whom clearly does deserve to be paid the money he's owed. I'm not disputing that - read my post properly and you'll realize.

He wants to get paid - OP cannot pay him, so the only clear way to fix this is for some arrangement to be made for payment to come in stages... I know I'd rather be paid £50/month and have that agreement in writing than take it to court knowing full well they'd make a silly judgement like £3/week.