Suddenly got terrifying legal letters re: train penalty fare!

Cornucopia

Rules About Rules are always difficult for some people to come to terms with. It would be nice if the powers that be understood that and either tried to arrange their bureaucracy to avoid them, or punish them less severely than the original Rule.

Dr._Shoe

The problem is that you have to punish the offender both for the original offence and also for breaking the rules designed to make them rectify the original offence. For example, you have to send someone to prison for not paying a fine or in this case penalise someone for not paying a penalty!

The penalty for avoiding the original penalty has to be a deterrent.

sniggings

Glasseye wrote: »

I thought I had it with me (99% of the time, I do)

Regarding "fare evasion" I PAID the price I was supposed to. The only thing I did wrong is surely failing to check that I had my railcard...

peachyprice wrote: »

OP bought a discount ticket when she knew the railcard was at home. How is that not intentional?

As said the OP made a mistake, just as you have done misreading this thread, or was it intentional?

DCFC79

Glasseye wrote: »

Thanks for helping,

I travelled a couple of months ago back home to Brighton without my network railcard (which I offered to collect, when I was stopped by someone manning the barriers, as my house is 4 mins from the station and I could leave my phone/wallet/bag/etc as a deposit) They wouldn't let me get the railcard to prove I owned it, nor would they allow me to call my friend to bring it(!!!) apparently that would be giving me an "unfair advantage" over other people who had forgotten their railcards!?

I've only just got these 3 legal letters as they were sent to my mum's address (which I gave because I didn't have a proper address of my own) and she didn't tell me until I visited recently.

I just thought that they hadn't bothered pursuing me over something so trivial. Now they're saying I owe £106.50. I have absolutely no way to pay that at all (credit cards/friends) even if I was willing to.

Thanks for any ideas

Have to say I agree with everyone else you broke rules and should pay for the error.

Good luck with the national campaign and keep us updated, be interesting to see how far it goes.

Glasseye

Can we take a breath and just check - you believe I should go to prison as well as pay this fine, because I was in to much of a fluster to double check that I had my Railcard when I left my house? I'm going to let you take a moment to think about what you're saying to someone you've never met, let alone the people who I might support who would be without help if I was locked up.

"Rules are rules..." I wonder if Hitler said that to someone who expressed concern about driving Jews to Auschwitz?

Rules are somewhere on a scale of fair and unfair. I'm willing to be open minded to them sometimes being unfair. This may not be one of those times in your mind, but I'm thankful for people in this world who explore how things might be better designed + do something about rules that aren't fair.

London50 wrote: »

Unless you guys can convince me otherwise very soon, I'll be resisting payment and making a campaign out of this which I intend to go national.
I'll spend the best part of a month getting people involved because it's not fair, and I don't care about rules as much as I care about what's fair. That's how I work


Oh please do go ahead with your plans,ignore everything posted on here,take it to the papers and get it on the main page as I for one will look forward to reading it. Your selection as a response bears no relationship to the offence you are being charged with, you may have paid the correct price BUT you have to carry the card as well {you did not}. Carrying the card 99% of the time may be all right in your eyes but {as has been proved now} if you are traveling on the train you need to carry it 100% of the time,be it fair or not rules are rules and {as you will find out if you choose to take such a stupid stand} if you break those rules there are comebacks.
I wholeheartedly agree with Blackbeard of Perranporth regarding what the fines should be and I would add a 3/6 months prison sentence on top, perhaps then people like you would think twice before thinking that your ideas supersedes what is clearly in the t&c's.

Glasseye

I really appreciate those who have replied who genuinely approached their keyboard with fingers looking to help me, rather than have a go at me.

Would people here feel differently about this situation if it was discovered that train companies could have used a different discount system for tickets, in which this didn't happen? I bet every one of us here use (or have used) a discount CODE, rather than inventing a piece of plastic which we can get fined and arrested for not carrying everywhere with us when we travel.

How much do the companies make from penalty fares each year? From people who had already paid the correct amount but just forgot (or even lost/had stolen their Railcard?) This doesn't have to be so complicated and aggressive. I feel like its a trap and I don't feel like many others are exploring this idea.

peachyprice

Glasseye wrote: »

Can we take a breath and just check - you believe I should go to prison as well as pay this fine, because I was in to much of a cluster to double check that I had my Railcard when I left my house? I'm going to let you take a moment to think about what you're saying to someone you've never met, let alone the people who I might support who would be without help if I was locked up.

"Rules are rules..." I wonder if Hitler said that to someone who expressed concern about driving Jews to Auschwitz?

Rules are somewhere on a scale of fair and unfair. I'm willing to be open minded to them sometimes being unfair. This may not be one of those times in your mind, but I'm thankful for people in this works who do something about rules that aren't fair.

But you didn't just leave your house and make one journey without a railcard that entitled you to a discount did you? You pushed your luck too far by making the return journey too.

peachyprice

Glasseye wrote: »

Would people here feel differently about this situation if it was discovered that train companies could have used a different discount system for tickets, in which this didn't happen? I bet every one of us here use (or have used) a discount CODE, rather than inventing a piece of plastic which we can get fined and arrested for not carrying everywhere with us when we travel.

How much do the companies make from penalty fares each year? From people who had already paid the correct amount but just forgot (or even lost/had stolen their Railcard?) This doesn't have to be so complicated and aggressive. I feel like its a trap and I don't eel like others are exploring this idea.

Oh for goodness sake, stop trying to make yourself out as a victim of an unfair process.

Millions of people manage, all over the UK, to use a railcard properly, what's so special about you that you can't manage it?

If you don't like the rules of the railcard system don't buy the railcard in the first place, then you won't be 'trapped' into being a fare evader.

Flugelhorn

Whenever have bought a ticket (at a railway station) I have been asked to show whatever discount card I am planning to use. Only time I am able to buy one without showing it is if I buy online or am buying in advance for one of the 16-25's at home who, I promise faithfully to the man at the station, will have their railcard with them when they actually travel or else.

cookie365

Glasseye wrote: »

"Rules are rules..." I wonder if Hitler said that to someone who expressed concern about driving Jews to Auschwitz?

I hereby invoke Godwin's law which usually suggests nobody has anything more of substance to add to the discussion