Sun and Wind Power

1961Nick

abc123456 wrote: »

Following on from this "possibility"..is there any information anywhere concerning multiple wind microgeneration turbines powering a stand alone heating/hot water system (during cold windy winter months) for a small 2 bedroomed house. (House also fitted with wood stove for added heat)?

Also, regarding this 3.68kW capping, referred to by both Martyn and Nick in previous posts on this thread, does it have any bearing if the wind power is used to power a stand alone system/appliances within a residential property?

These small wind turbines I am looking at are not MCS accredited anyway, so would not be able to receive/look for any income from that at the end of the day, just the leccy !

Little bit confused......:o

A simple solution might be install a tank into your central heating system with multiple immersion heaters. How many kWs do you envisage generating from wind?

zeupater

abc123456 wrote: »

Following on from this "possibility"..is there any information anywhere concerning multiple wind microgeneration turbines powering a stand alone heating/hot water system (during cold windy winter months) for a small 2 bedroomed house. (House also fitted with wood stove for added heat)?

Also, regarding this 3.68kW capping, referred to by both Martyn and Nick in previous posts on this thread, does it have any bearing if the wind power is used to power a stand alone system/appliances within a residential property?

These small wind turbines I am looking at are not MCS accredited anyway, so would not be able to receive/look for any income from that at the end of the day, just the leccy !

Little bit confused......:o

Hi

Take note of Mart's advice on a dump load for a standalone wind system. Unless a wind turbine is under load it will simply rotate wildly (possibly to destruction) even a strong breeze ... Your preferred load can be hot water, but if it reaches thermostatic cut-out then there's no load ... I know someone who uses a small turbine to provide HW in some pretty remote outbuildings, automatically switching over to electric heaters when it's windy and the water is already hot ... strange to see electric heaters glowing away in an open-sided building in the middle of nowhere ...

HTH
Z

abc123456

1961Nick wrote: »

A simple solution might be install a tank into your central heating system with multiple immersion heaters. How many kWs do you envisage generating from wind?

I am thinking of a 4.2kW system (3 x 1.2kW small turbines) in a windy, remote area where annual average wind speed is 7m/s, so thinking possible around 2000kWh (optimistic or pessimistic???) at a minimum.

abc123456

Martyn1981 wrote: »

I'll probably just confuse you further!

You may have some options. If the wind energy isn't connected to the grid, and is truly stand-alone, then the DNO won't care, but you will need a much more complicated set-up. Rather than just connecting the turbines to an appropriate GTI (grid tied inverter) you'll need to dump it to your heat store/system/set up. You might try this directly in DC, or put it into a large battery via a charge controller first. Whatever you do, you'll need some 'proper' advice, as I know next to nothing about this, and you'll need to consider how to control/dump generation during a blow.

I might suggest you read or join the Navitron forum as you'll find folk who are doing this, probably as off-gridders, but with respect to the wind side, that's technically what you are proposing.

Another option [warning, potential red herring] if you go for a wind GTI might be some sort of export controller like the EMMA GVS. This will only allow a certain level of export, diverting the rest to 'something' perhaps a heat store, or even reducing the output of the system - easy with PV, not sure how tricky it is with wind though.

Here's an example, just a google hit, so not a recommendation in any way.

The big but though, is I don't know if any of the DNO's have approved these devices on a domestic level allowing you to have more potential generation than their export cap - some have approved them for larger installs.

You probably need to do some research and ringing around, especially regarding mixing wind and PV and an export controller.

Mart.

No Martyn, this is excellent stuff, thank you very much...much food for thought and investigation...

abc123456

Thanks to everyone so far, you have all been very informative and appreciative of my limited knowledge. Now that I have an inkling of what is required I can consult an expert directly and ask all the right questions and understand the replies !

Martyn1981

zeupater wrote: »

Hi

Take note of Mart's advice on a dump load for a standalone wind system. Unless a wind turbine is under load it will simply rotate wildly (possibly to destruction) even a strong breeze ... Your preferred load can be hot water, but if it reaches thermostatic cut-out then there's no load ... I know someone who uses a small turbine to provide HW in some pretty remote outbuildings, automatically switching over to electric heaters when it's windy and the water is already hot ... strange to see electric heaters glowing away in an open-sided building in the middle of nowhere ...

HTH
Z

Cheers Zeup, glad I got that bit right. My first love is wind, but the more I read (on Navitron) the more complex it becomes. Stories of people having to brake their systems before a blow, or lower the masts (if so constructed) or getting up in the middle of the night to switch on air and water heaters to save their battery banks from blowing, or their turbines from exploding, are quite scary.

These people always seem to refer to the running of turbines (or flying turnips!) as a love affair, and an art. Get it slightly wrong and things can go bad.

It's been interesting to see over the last 3 or so years how off-gridders approach to wind has change. With the drop in PV prices, they are now choosing this technology as it's so much easier. Again, I'm as far from an expert as is possible, but when the batteries and heat stores are full, the PV inverter/charge controllers can simply draw less from the panels. Whereas with wind, extra dumps, or generation reduction is necessary, and usually in bad weather in the middle of the night.

Whilst it's "Too much magic for me" I hope abc can get a hybrid system working, as wind and PV are such great partners.

@abc, stupid question, and I'm being lazy, but do turbines need to be MCS accredited for grid connection or just for FiT? You can probably see now why I'm suggesting (guessing) that a GTI would make life easier.

[Edit: Just a thought, but if the grid voltage (via a GTI) is being used to control the blade speed of a turbine, what happens if the grid goes down, a possibility in a rural location during stormy weather. Would the turbine lose all braking and rip itself apart?]

Mart.

abc123456

Martyn1981 wrote: »

@abc, stupid question, and I'm being lazy, but do turbines need to be MCS accredited for grid connection or just for FiT? You can probably see now why I'm suggesting (guessing) that a GTI would make life easier.

Not a stupid question as I dont really know....my thinking behind this statement was that I thought that non MCS accredited turbines dont qualify for FiT payment, or could not go anywhere near the grid, ie stand-alone.
PS I still have not fully read up on my Wind Power for Dummies book!

MrAndMrs

Solar thermal. If it is done properly you can't beat it!

ed110220

MrAndMrs wrote: »

Solar thermal. If it is done properly you can't beat it!

How so? I thought with the present price of solar PV it made more sense than thermal. Also, electricity is a lot more useful than hot water. If you produce too much to use at any time you can sell it on for someone else to use.

Ed

MrAndMrs

ed110220 wrote: »

How so? I thought with the present price of solar PV it made more sense than thermal. Also, electricity is a lot more useful than hot water. If you produce too much to use at any time you can sell it on for someone else to use.

Ed

Fair point. I'm not sure how much PV it costs these days. I only looked at the price about 3 years ago. We decided to get solar thermal as it was half the set up price compared to PV. I got a solar thermal system installed for £2.5k and we worked out it saved us around £800 a year off out gas bill. If I recall correctly, We would have got less back from PV. But like I said, things have probably improved since then.