Boundary Dispute - Neighbour wont let me put a fence on MY land

stator

john_white wrote: »

I can't work out which is yours.

I think it's this one:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.682216,-1.837688,3a,75y,349.36h,86.5t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sRNPynbjzf5sjdMsgsf5L2A!2e0?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/86+Oak+St,+Elland,+West+Yorkshire+HX5+0LF/@53.6823656,-1.8388055,60m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x487bdd20d5a80ae5:0x6009d7c090be0c61?hl=en

Seems to be 4 houses with no garden at a 90 degree angle to the main road His house is back onto Oak street, front onto Elizabeth Street. Their houses back onto Oak street, Front onto Charlest St.

It's a shame Street View didn't go down Oak Street, then we could see the courtyard in full

globalds

Maybe you could discuss the height of the fence ?

A slightly lower fence would maybe infringe on your privacy but would make them feel it was less intrusive to walk onto your section of the land

4ft not 6ft ?

I_have_spoken

Some folks are always banging on about 'rights', never about responsibilities.

moneyistooshorttomention

From what I've been reading of the law recently, you can do what you please to your own garden, provided anyone with "access rights" can still get that access (just in case they are the awkward type who would think nothing of using a neighbours garden for their precious "access rights").

For instance, people are quite definitely allowed to put in fences/gates/the like in their own gardens, provided they are either unlocked or, if they are locked, the "access-or" has a key to the lock.

If the "access-or" is determined to use that "right" and access your garden for that, then I very much doubt they would be the type that would feel uncomfortable about being in someone else's garden:cool:.

I'm sure Mr Landlord knows the law very well re this and is just "trying it on" hoping to frighten you out of putting up a fence you are perfectly entitled to put up in your own garden.

In your position, I'd put the fence up. Most probably, I would give a suitable letter (copy kept) to Mr Landlord quoting that I am entitled to do this and "access rights" are being maintained and his tenants can still hang their washing in my garden. He's just "huffing and puffing" hoping to deter you, but hasn't got a leg to stand on (provided they can still hang their blimmin' washing in the hypothetical situation that they actually wanted to).

You would be as well to go ahead with this because, if you decide to sell the house at some point (as you probably will - because its a "starter house") it would put buyers off to NOT have that fence there and position clearly established.

EDIT: One cynical little thought crossing my mind here is "...and just who might be wanting to buy my house if I came to sell it?". Answer = Mr Landlord of course. You say he owns a lot of the houses in your street. I'd be willing to bet that he'd like to own yours as well, but didn't bid for it when it came up for sale because he was too short of money to do so at the time. However, he would like to make you feel uncomfortable enough/make your house that bit more difficult to sell to anyone other than him that he has First Pick should you sell it on in the future (assuming he has enough money to do so then). He would like to make you feel uncomfortable enough/scared enough of him that you might be motivated to sell the house on sooner than you otherwise would.

I think that's what he is up to personally.

Ozzuk

You say your solicitor didn't tell you, but in your original post you said he did. The restrictions/covenants will be on your deed that you should have reviewed - its not always the easiest to read but that is what your solicitor is for.

You can put a fence up (as long as your deeds don't forbid this), you can even put a lock on it IIRC correctly but you'd have to give a key to whoever has access (again unless specific wording in your deed prevents this). You don't need to sign anything - its a given you can't restrict their access, you wouldn't sign something saying you aren't going to shoot them for instance.

I must say I've never heard about hanging rights!

Norman_Castle

Explain to the landlord part of the reason for the new fence is his tenants putting rubbish in your garden.

Bambi0895

Hi all,

it is the one that Stator mentioned, front on elizabeth st, backing onto Oak St. It's the one with the little extension on it. I own the whole corner, and only want to fence off a bit.

Like i say i will leave it unlocked for them, and i'll go with whatever height as long as i can have something!

My solicitor told me that they have hanging rights and access rights, which means they can come and go as they please, which is fine. What i mean is she never mentioned anything about not being allowed to put a fence up, and when i have spoken to her about it, it remains her opinion that i should be allowed to!

The general opinion is that i can do it, just one difficult neighbour that says no!

I havent heard of hanging rights before now either, i do think the landlord is playing a bit of a game, but i wont be selling this house anyway, if i moved id make way more in rent, so his loss!

Bambi0895

I've explained the rubbish situation -he said i should ring him and he will move it. I dont think he will want a call for every time it happens - its pretty much a daily basis.

Norman_Castle

I think this says you can put a fence up if you allow access.

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/easements.html


An easement is very difficult to extinguish and should be thought of as existing forever. The land of the servient tenement is burdened with the easement. The owner of the dominant tenement should not forget that the owner of the servient tenement has a right to the peaceful enjoyment of his land and the legitimate development of his land, and the performance of the easement should not interfere with the servient owner's peace nor prevent him from exercising his right to develop his land (provided that the development caters for the easement).

moneyistooshorttomention

Norman_Castle wrote: »

I think this says you can put a fence up if you allow access.

http://www.boundary-problems.co.uk/boundary-problems/easements.html


An easement is very difficult to extinguish and should be thought of as existing forever. The land of the servient tenement is burdened with the easement. The owner of the dominant tenement should not forget that the owner of the servient tenement has a right to the peaceful enjoyment of his land and the legitimate development of his land, and the performance of the easement should not interfere with the servient owner's peace nor prevent him from exercising his right to develop his land (provided that the development caters for the easement).

To clarify, and I had to find out myself what "servient" and "dominant" meant. As I recall, "servient" means OP in this case (ie the one who has to let someone else have some rights on their land) and "dominant" means the house that has these rights to access someone else's property.

In my unadopted road I live in, the owner of the road is the "servient" property, as they have to allow us home-owners here ROW on a road they own. The "dominant" houses are those of us who have that right to use this road as our ROW (ie a right of necessity in order to be able to get to our houses, but its down enshrined in our "deeds" as our ROW anyway). So, in our situation, the Deeds say we have this ROW, but we would have it anyway, ie because its a "right of necessity", as it would be impossible to live in these houses without it and the Courts wouldn't allow road-owner to cut off our access over our ROW (ie because we need it or the houses would be totally unusable).

In OP's case that "hanging right" is down in writing, so its a legal right. It wouldn't be a "right of necessity" I imagine, because no-one HAS to have a clothesline (as is proved by the fact they aren't even using it).

EDIT: OP = do make that fence the standard 6' high. You will need it that high to ensure privacy, with most people being between 5' - 6' tall.