J.A.S Parking Ticket Help

chewy21

Hi my dad got one of these fines on his window screen from JAS for leaving the carpark at B&Ms, it was just after xmas should i appeal it now or wait for a letter?

Thanks

Redx

nobody received a "fine" , they cannot fine anybody

he received a parking charge invoice

read and follow the advice in the NEWBIES sticky thread, above this one, below the green banner, where JAS is specifically mentioned

chewy21

so if i am reading this right i wait until i receive the letter? then i send this

Date


Dear Sirs

Re: PCN No. ....................

I challenge this 'PCN' as keeper of the car, on these main grounds:

a). The sum does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of loss, nor is it a core price term. It is a disguised penalty and not commercially justified.
b). As keeper I believe that the signs were not seen, the wording is ambiguous and the predominant purpose of your business model is intended to be a deterrent.
c). There is no evidence that you have any proprietary interest in the land.
d). Your 'Notice' fails to comply with the POFA 2012 and breaches various consumer contract/unfair terms Regulations.
e). There was no consideration nor acceptance flowing from both parties and any contract with myself, or the driver, is denied.

Your clients should be thoroughly ashamed of the shoddy way you treat consumers visiting their premises. The landowner will be made fully aware of this matter and your response, which I will forward to their CEO when I complain in writing and via social media, as appropriate. Parking firms like yours fail to demonstrate even a basic understanding of customer service. The reputation of your business model appears to be more akin to a protection racket than 'parking management'. Your ATA may offer sound-bites about driving up standards or fight for motorists' rights but in reality they are not a regulator; they merely exist to represent the interests of paying members, in order to gain access to DVLA data. The public have no faith in the private parking industry and, as far as I have seen, your firm has not shown itself to be any different than the ex-clampers with whom you share a membership.

The purpose of this communication is:

1. Formal challenge
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. As such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or cancel the charge. I suggest you uphold this challenge now or alternatively, send a rejection letter - subject to accepting my claim for costs as clearly stated below, since you have no case.

2. ''Drop hands'' offer
The extravagant 'parking charge' is baseless but I realise that you may have incurred nominal postage costs. Equally, I have incurred costs to date, for researching the law and responding to your junk mail dressed up to impersonate a parking ticket. It is clear that my costs and yours, at this point, do not exceed £15. Therefore, this is a formal “drop hands” offer. I remind you of the duty to mitigate any loss, so withdraw the spurious charge within 35 days without further expense and I will not pursue you for my costs. If you persist then I will charge in full for my time at £18 per hour plus my out-of-pocket expenses and damages for harassment.

3. Notice of cancellation of contract
I hereby give notice of withdrawal from this alleged 'contract' which was never properly offered by you and certainly was not expressly agreed. This 'contract' is hereby cancelled and any obligations now end. If you offer - and if I decide to use - IAS or POPLA, then the contract ends immediately on the date of their decision (whatever the outcome) so my notice of cancellation still applies. The Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation & Additional Payments) Regulations apply now to every consumer contract, save for a few exemptions, which parking contracts are not. It is the will of Parliament following the EU Consumer Rights Directive, that express consent is obtained for consumer contracts now - not implied consent - and that information is provided in a durable medium in advance.

You have failed to meet these requirements. The foisting of unexpected contracts like this on consumers, by stealth, is a thing of the past.

By replying to the challenge you are acknowledging receipt and acceptance of points 2 and 3 above. If you decide to persist with this unwarranted threat, I will be put to unnecessary expense and hours of time in appealing or defending this matter. As such, you will be liable for my costs and a pre-estimate of my loss - and in contrast with yours, mine is genuine - is that this sum will be likely to exceed £100.

I have kept proof of submission of this challenge. I look forward to your considered reply within 35 days.

Yours faithfully,

Redx

read the thread again, especially post #1

chewy21

yes i did, so i wait for letter or after 21 days then sent the template, sorry i am not that good at this.

Redx

correct, send the appeal after day 21 to try and avoid the debt collector demands, get free proof of posting too , from the post office ( you wont get a letter by day 21 , or day 28 for that matter)

all I asked you to do was read that newbies thread, everybody should be good at reading , providing they are not handicapped in some way (like dyslexia for example)

my point is, if you can type well enough, you can read well enough and 8 minutes was not long enough to digest that newbies sticky thread, not even the first post

so yes, send the appeal on day 21 , with free certificate of posting , keep the certificate safe , in case you have to complain to the BPA when the debt collector letters turn up

as you are new to this, search the forum for JAS and B&M etc and do exactly the same as previous people have done , following the well trodden path

do not admit or infer who was driving either (so assume I was driving your car)

if your dad got the windscreen ticket, get him to send the appeal, or do so as if you are he

chewy21

thanks, do i have to post or can i email?

Redx

check what it tells you on that invoice , but whatever you do, ensure you have proof you did it, and when , if necessary, do both , as you are trying to create a paper trail here

Coupon-mad

chewy21 wrote: »

thanks, do i have to post or can i email?

You have the ticket there, not us! Read the bit about appealing...time it to be sent around day 21 or 22 and if posting it, get a free receipt-style 'proof of posting' from the PO Counter (NOT RECORDED DELIVERY, please don't ask why not).

BlackSpangle

So you understand the dance that's about to happen:

1. You send appeal to JAS
2. They reject the appeal, claiming it as an "Internet Template" (like that somehow is an argument). Do not, under any circumstances, expect JAS to even read the appeal before rejecting it.
3. You craft a new appeal to POPLA, stressing lack of contract, lack of signage, no pre-estimate of loss, no mitigation
4. JAS post their template POPLA submission, whining that you just submitted an Internet Template, and "wah, wah, wah. Can we win, just this once, please?"
5. POPLA allow the appeal, probably based on GPEOL or lack of contract. (JAS's record at POPLA is one of the worst of any PPC)
6. End of story

If it's anything like my case, make sure you ask for proof that the driver left the car park. I'll bet that - at best - all they have is a few photos of the car. Proving that a car was parked properly in a car park. Brilliant. They will also produce a contract which has no details whatsoever of the authority to pursue claims.

One more thing: if you're anything like me, you want this dealt with right now. Most important: take your time, and get it right. It's on your side, not theirs. You will win, you won't pay them, they will lose the POPLA appeal fee. Don't rush letters out, but do make sure you keep within the 21 day deadline (so that they can't even claim DVLA fees for keeper detail fetching - but they will claim that anyway, I'll bet!).

stargazer7

The other half and I have just had our JAS ticket cancelled by POPLA.

As BlackSpangle says, JAS will reject your initial challenge out of hand and will probably send one or more letters from "Debt Recovery" agents (who are actually the same company) in an attempt to intimidate you into payment. These can be safely ignored - there isn't even a debt to pursue until such time as it goes to court (which it never will). Just make it clear in your appeal that if the challenge is rejected (it will be) then you require a POPLA code.

There were loads of points to shoot them down on, but the one that POPLA allowed on was the absence of authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices. The letter wasn't even from the right client, it admitted they did not own the land and would merely "assume" JAS had the right to pursue parking charges. So if they send the same document to POPLA, you'll win on that alone.

Other appeal points were : no genuine pre-estimate of loss - make the point that their breakdown of costs includes dealing with appeals that never occur in the vast majority of cases, no attempt to mitigate loss, no proof of breach of terms. non-compliant Notice to Keeper (they lose the right to pursue the keeper if the NTK is not issued between the 28th and 56th day following the original ticket), inadequate signage, punitive and unfair charge contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999.

The so-called evidence they supplied was a bit of a shambles, badly written, nonsensical in parts, and with no proof other than a photograph of the car and a claim that their attendant saw the driver leaving the car park. Also a load of irrelevant waffle trying to make out that the charge should stand because she hadn't denied breaking the terms and had "copy and pasted" from the internet.

Give me a shout if you need any more help with this.