Buyer used chargeback to get refund

bxboards

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

They won't take you to court, but they will telephone you *alot* and send many letters saying that they "may" do this and "may" do that, but after a few months they just give up.

Agreed.

Paypal say something like 'we never share your payment details with the seller'.

A seller has no idea where funds are coming from, and had no visibity of a buyer's credit card. Therefore it would not be enforceable for Paypal to recover credit card chargeback funds from a seller.

This is why Paypal only write letters, and don't go any further.

RMS2

Brooker_Dave wrote: »

They won't take you to court, but they will telephone you *alot* and send many letters saying that they "may" do this and "may" do that, but after a few months they just give up.

As always, what Dave says.


If you don't mind kissing your paypal & ebay account goodbye, then hang on to your money. But you will have to tough out the letters and odd phone call. Me, I'd have the inconvenience for a few months and £900 in my pocket.

Rotor

I should go and get your staircase back as well!


Whilst it may 'belong' to paypal now they can get it from you just as easily as the buyer ( don't think they'll bother - resell and keep proof of sale price and money just in case ) After all, buyer has lost nothing - you've lost ebay account and time

andycris3107

I find it odd that PayPal are being singled out as the 'guilty' party here having merely enforced their terms of service as agreed to by the seller.

The reality is that if payment had been made by credit card directly (without PayPal or another payment provider being involved) then the chargeback would have happened far sooner as credit cards offer very little in the way of protection for the merchant unless specific insurance is taken out.

Having accepted payment via PayPal you have gained yourself additional layers of protection however you have not abided by the requirements of this protection by allowing the buyer to collect directly. PayPal is clear in that it requires the seller to provide tracking information in order to respond to a chargeback of this type and you haven't been able to provide this. To blame this on PayPal or suggest that they are responsible for your buyer taking advantage of a 'loophole' outside of their terms of service is wrong.

Having said that there are still things you can consider. You haven't mentioned why the buyer was dissatisfied with their purchase as that may help identify the possible conclusions.

If there was truly an error in the listing or a fault identified which was neither advertised or apparent when collected then I feel that your best bet may be to come to an arrangement with the buyer and you will end up somewhat out of pocket for return costs.

If there was no error and the reality is that the buyer is suffering a case of buyers remorse - including that the staircase is not fit what he intends to do with it but not as a result of poor description or fault, then I would be going down small claims and gathering the evidence as indicated earlier.

The fact that all previous actions by the buyer were found in your favour is a good sign that you may have a favourable outcome.

Brooker_Dave

andycris3107 wrote: »

I find it odd that PayPal are being singled out as the 'guilty' party here having merely enforced their terms of service as agreed to by the seller.

Ebay/Paypal force people selling on ebay to take paypal on collection only items despite it being wide open to abuse, so they need to take the blame when things go wrong.

chickendipperbabe

It looks to me like ebay and PayPal have done all they could in this instance, siding with the seller and when that failed the buyer took the nuclear option and went to their CC company. Sad thing is Ebay/PayPal will most probably charge the seller a chargeback fee to add insult in injury.

The PayPal Collection loophole is as old as time, having been featured on various consumer TV shows and countless tales of woe on various forums. All ebay need to do it fix it would be to blank it out as a payment option when the seller selects collection in person when listing. Suppose its their way to force private sellers selling locally onto Gumtree.

RMS2

Simple way out of it is;


Sell with Paypal - delivery only at an extortionate figure that nobody is going to pay.


Put in the text -may offer collection, contact to discuss. COC.


They want to use Paypal, then pay for delivery, they want sensible price and collection, then cash. You have stuck by the rules and offered Paypal as a payment method.

chompie

Do paypal really do chargebacks on items not paid for with Paypal?


That seems bizarre.


EDIT>
Just seen paypal payment (for a collection)


That's just asking for trouble.

bats_in_the_belfry

Quick update......I finally got a reply to the emails I have sent the buyer requesting an address where I may pick up my goods. She refuses to give me the address unless I pay her the charges incurred on the chargeback! On a phonecall from paypal (again) I told them this & they gave me her billing address.
Firstly, is she committing fraud / blackmail by not telling me where the goods are without more money being paid to her - and Second, aren't paypal in breach of Data Protection Act by telling me her address?. Paypal have now suggested I go to Action Fraud and report her - at the same time as asking me to make a payment into my account "as an act of goodwill".
Any suggestions, thoughts??

Brooker_Dave

Buyer won't have been charged to do the chargeback, it's a free customer service thing that banks do using someone else's money to sponsor it, and charging the supplier yet more charges to steal their money.

Don't bother do anything, just keep the money and ignore paypal.