How much compensation to seek?

creasechris

Hi all,

I've been in a sticky spot with my energy supply since July last year and it's been a complete nightmare getting it sorted out. The basic situation is as follows (I've removed names and exact numbers for privacy but everything is correct):

• I was on a good value Company A tariff set to expire on 30th Nov 2014. In mid-July, my landlord had my meter switched, and I informed Company A of this immediately. On 1st Sept, I submitted a switch request via uSwitch to switch electricity and gas to Company B.
• Company A switched my electricity to Company B in good time, but kept the gas. I contacted them a further four times over six months to try to get them to register that the meter had been changed. In the meantime, they updated my online account to show that the meter was estimated at over 9,200 (up from 4,2xx), implicitly threatening me with a bill for £5800.
• Company B was extremely confused about what was going on, of course, so I've been in contact with them as well.
• Since Company A is keeping my gas past the cutoff point for my old tariff, I will receive a bill that is too high. They have promised me the difference back, plus a "gesture of goodwill".

Further details, using the language I would use on the phone, are below.

Company A's faults.

• Failing to register the meter switch when Company A was informed of it not once, not twice, but five times. This has (very recently) led to threatening letters demanding access to the property to inspect and replace a meter that is not there.
• Rather than register the meter switch, my account was instead updated online on the 14th of September to display a reading of 92xx (still shows on 11/01/15). This is approximately 49xx units of gas that clearly was not used. Since I had a bill due on the 19th of September and I pay by direct debit, I felt in very real danger of incurring an automatically generated direct debit of over £5,800. This would have caused financial ruin for myself, putting my studies and hence my career in jeopardy. I called Company A as soon as I noticed this, around the 18th of September, but it took several more phone calls before they accepted a revised reading.
  29/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 93xx
  19/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 92xx
  14/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 92xx
  08/08/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 42xx
• Refusing to release my account to Company B for four and a half months (as of 11/01/15) after the switch request was put in, when the process is supposed to be completed within 6 to 8 weeks.
• Causing a plethora of further problems for me with my subsequent energy provider, so far (as of 11/01/2015) amounting to one wildly inaccurate bill that had to be voided, three phone calls and seven lengthy emails.

As you can see, I've put lots of effort into getting them to do the right thing, but it was no use. I feel I am within my rights to ask for a three-figure sum of goodwill compensation, plus the difference between what I should have paid and what I'm actually paying.

Can anyone suggest an amount of compensation to claim?

Thanks very much!

Chris

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays

creasechris wrote: »

Hi all,

I've been in a sticky spot with my energy supply since July last year and it's been a complete nightmare getting it sorted out. The basic situation is as follows (I've removed names and exact numbers for privacy but everything is correct):

Name names - this is a consumer forum.

• I was on a good value Company A tariff set to expire on 30th Nov 2014. In mid-July, my landlord had my meter switched, and I informed Company A of this immediately. On 1st Sept, I submitted a switch request via uSwitch to switch electricity and gas to Company B.

Confused by this. The meter has nothing to do with your landlord, it is the property of the energy company, and only you can request changes to your meter/tariff. It has about as much to do with him as your mobile phone provider. Also, if the tariff was good value, why switch so early? If there were exit fees, then it's a really poor choice, and even if not it's too early to give up an advantageous tariff.

• Company A switched my electricity to Company B in good time, but kept the gas. I contacted them a further four times over six months to try to get them to register that the meter had been changed. In the meantime, they updated my online account to show that the meter was estimated at over 9,200 (up from 4,2xx), implicitly threatening me with a bill for £5800.

With these issues, the onus is on the gaining supplier to ensure an effective transfer. That said, I don't doubt the meter change has screwed things up somewhat, however we then enter the murky waters of who has performed the meter change (almost certainly a third party such as G4S) informing the local DNO (not the same as your supplier) in turn informing the supplier, in turn informing XOSERVE (who hold all meter registry info). If it's an Independent Gas Transporter in your area, god only knows.

• Company B was extremely confused about what was going on, of course, so I've been in contact with them as well.

A good move - the onus is on them!

• Since Company A is keeping my gas past the cutoff point for my old tariff, I will receive a bill that is too high. They have promised me the difference back, plus a "gesture of goodwill".

Decent of them - they are only "expected" to put you in the situation you would have been in if none of this had happened.

Further details, using the language I would use on the phone, is below.


Company A's faults.

• Failing to register the meter switch when Company A was informed of it not once, not twice, but five times.
• Rather than register the meter switch, my account was instead updated online on the 14th of September to display a reading of 92xx (still shows on 11/01/15). This is approximately 49xx units of gas that clearly was not used. Since I had a bill due on the 19th of September and I pay by direct debit, I felt in very real danger of incurring an automatically generated direct debit of over £5,800. This would have caused financial ruin for myself, putting my studies and hence my career in jeopardy. I called Company A as soon as I noticed this, around the 18th of September, but it took several more phone calls before they accepted a revised reading.
  29/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 93xx
  19/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 92xx
  14/09/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 92xx
  08/08/2014 Estimated read, Gas (24 hours) 42xx
• Refusing to release my account to Company B for four and a half months (as of 11/01/15) after the switch request was put in, when the process is supposed to be completed within 6 to 8 weeks.
• Causing a plethora of further problems for me with my subsequent energy provider, so far (as of 11/01/2015) amounting to one wildly inaccurate bill that had to be voided, three phone calls and seven lengthy emails.

As you can see, I've put lots of effort into getting them to do the right thing, but it was no use. I feel I am within my rights to ask for a three-figure sum of goodwill compensation, plus the difference between what I should have paid and what I'm actually paying.

Can anyone suggest an amount of compensation to claim?

Thanks very much!

Chris

They can reasonably be expected to put you in the situation you would have been in had none of this taken place - however IMHO that would include being billed at standard tariff since 30th Nov. You can argue the toss on that one, but that's my gut feeling.

As for compo - name your price. I would be calculating my time spent on it, and multiplying it by my hourly rate of pay. That said, whilst it's lamentable this has taken place (mostly due to the antiquated systems and disjointed practices the industry sees these days), company A can hardly be blamed fully, and I'd be very surprised if you got more than £200. But that's just my two pennies worth.

Good Luck!

creasechris

Name names - this is a consumer forum.

Company A is nPower; Company B is EDF.

Confused by this. The meter has nothing to do with your landlord, it is the property of the energy company, and only you can request changes to your meter/tariff. It has about as much to do with him as your mobile phone provider. Also, if the tariff was good value, why switch so early? If there were exit fees, then it's a really poor choice, and even if not it's too early to give up an advantageous tariff.

The landlord came for a routine inspection and smelled a very faint gas leak from the meter, so had it switched immediately. I suppose the fact it was him and not me is irrelevant.

Switching then made sense to me because EDF's new tariff was comparable to nPower's, and I expected it to take 8 weeks (so 1st Nov expected switch date).

With these issues, the onus is on the gaining supplier to ensure an effective transfer. That said, I don't doubt the meter change has screwed things up somewhat, however we then enter the murky waters of who has performed the meter change (almost certainly a third party such as G4S) informing the local DNO (not the same as your supplier) in turn informing the supplier, in turn informing XOSERVE (who hold all meter registry info). If it's an Independent Gas Transporter in your area, god only knows.

That's useful information - I suspected the meter switch may have thrown a spanner in the works. However it's still not right of them to display a nonsense reading that would have cost me £5800 had it made its way to the bill.

Bluebirdman_of_Alcathays wrote: »

They can reasonably be expected to put you in the situation you would have been in had none of this taken place - however IMHO that would include being billed at standard tariff since 30th Nov. You can argue the toss on that one, but that's my gut feeling.

As for compo - name your price. I would be calculating my time spent on it, and multiplying it by my hourly rate of pay. That said, whilst it's lamentable this has taken place (mostly due to the antiquated systems and disjointed practices the industry sees these days), company A can hardly be blamed fully, and I'd be very surprised if you got more than £200. But that's just my two pennies worth.

Good Luck!

Had none of this taken place, my tariff would have gone from nPower's cheap tariff to EDF's cheap tariff. Instead, my gas is now on nPower's standard tariff, and they are promising me the difference back, plus a gesture of goodwill.

£200 is actually the figure I had in mind - so it could be a good start to the negotiations?

Thanks so much for your informative reply

naedanger

creasechris wrote: »

£200 is actually the figure I had in mind - so it could be a good start to the negotiations?

Thanks so much for your informative reply

If the matter is not yet fully resolved you may wish to consider waiting until it is, since you may have a lot more bother yet.

Also make sure you follow npower's official complaint process and make sure you escalate promptly to the Ombudsman if it is not resolved to your satisfaction after 8 weeks from the date you first clearly complained. (The Ombudsman are quick to time bar complaints - namely those which have not been escalated to them within, I think, 9 months of your first complaint to the supplier.)

http://www.npower.com/home/help-and-support/contact-us/complaints/complaints-handling-policy/

I suggest you email (to the addresses in the above link) rather that phone so you have evidence of what is said.

If £200 is the figure you had in mind then you should consider having an explanation for how you reached that amount e.g. so many hours at £x per hour, or so much per call etc or clearly explain the hassle/stress etc you have been through.

If £200 is the figure you had in mind should you not start at a higher amount, as is usually the case with negotiation. Also the more convincing you are that you will escalate your complaint if necessary the Ombudsman the more likely you will get a reasonable offer.

chanz4

Did the supplier change the meter? This is very important question

creasechris

chanz4 wrote: »

Did the supplier change the meter? This is very important question

I believe it wasn't. My landlord would have called whichever service he trusted most, and I don't think he even knows which supplier I use.

naedanger wrote: »

If the matter is not yet fully resolved you may wish to consider waiting until it is, since you may have a lot more bother yet.

Also make sure you follow npower's official complaint process and make sure you escalate promptly to the Ombudsman if it is not resolved to your satisfaction after 8 weeks from the date you first clearly complained. (The Ombudsman are quick to time bar complaints - namely those which have not been escalated to them within, I think, 9 months of your first complaint to the supplier.)

http://www.npower.com/home/help-and-support/contact-us/complaints/complaints-handling-policy/

I suggest you email (to the addresses in the above link) rather that phone so you have evidence of what is said.

Yes - I was advised that I would have to wait until everything is sorted and my bill amounts calculated before entering discussions concerning compensation, but they couldn't give me a timeframe for when the mess would be cleaned up! I'm taking it to be anywhere from two days to six months. Anywhere in between would be fine. Thanks for the links and advice

The date I first clearly complained would be yesterday, so that's no issue - before then I just phoned and politely explained all the mistakes they were making. (I was in contact with their complaints line once before, but never got a reference.)

naedanger wrote: »

If £200 is the figure you had in mind then you should consider having an explanation for how you reached that amount e.g. so many hours at £x per hour, or so much per call etc or clearly explain the hassle/stress etc you have been through.

If £200 is the figure you had in mind should you not start at a higher amount, as is usually the case with negotiation. Also the more convincing you are that you will escalate your complaint if necessary the Ombudsman the more likely you will get a reasonable offer.

Starting at a higher amount makes sense, thanks!

To be honest, £200 seems fair for the amount of effort I've put in making this right, and the amount of stress it's caused me (in particular four days before a bill was due they put £5,800 of gas on my account for absolutely no reason). I suppose I can try and break it down:

• Estimated four hours on the phone (including hold times etc - will they have a record of this?)
• Four hours emailing EDF (justifiable? It was nPower's fault that they didn't change the meter on the system when I first told them in July - if they'd done this there would be no problem with EDF)
• Estimated five hours or more of administration time (taking extra meter readings, reading nonsense letters, rebudgeting etc.).

I would then have to justify the cost of my labour at ~£15 an hour... perhaps tricky as a student, even though my time is worth more than that to me. I wouldn't take a job for £15 an hour, put it that way. I just don't have the time.

I really feel that a three-figure compensation amount for these six months of stress is valid. Is there anything else I can "charge them for" to at least get the negotiations started - for example, could I slap on a £50 fine for the erroneous £5,800 of gas, or would they stop taking me seriously?

Many thanks for all your helpful replies!

naedanger

creasechris wrote: »

To be honest, £100-200 seems fair for the amount of effort I've put in making this right, and the amount of stress it's caused me (in particular four days before a bill was due they put £5,800 of gas on my account for absolutely no reason).

Personally I would not ask for more than the top end of what I thought was reasonable, because I would find it hard arguing for something that I could not justify to myself. I suspect they will start at around £25 and will probably stick to that amount unless they believe you will take your complaint to the Ombudsman. If I thought £100 to £200 was reasonable I would start at £200 and go to the Ombudsman (asking for £200) if I did not get £100.

System

It's a negotiation. You cannot 'fine' an energy company. They may make an offer of compensation or not: you accept it or reject it. You make a counter suggestion: they accept it or reject it. You can't agree so you end up with the Energy Ombudsman via a formal complaint.

Alternatively, if you feel that you have right on your side, you take your claim to the Small Claims Court with all the supporting evidence.

creasechris

naedanger wrote: »

Personally I would not ask for more than the top end of what I thought was reasonable, because I would find it hard arguing for something that I could not justify to myself. I suspect they will start at around £25 and will probably stick to that amount unless they believe you will take your complaint to the Ombudsman. If I thought £100 to £200 was reasonable I would start at £200 and go to the Ombudsman (asking for £200) if I did not get £100.

That's very useful information. Thanks very much

Hengus wrote: »

It's a negotiation. You cannot 'fine' an energy company. They may make an offer of compensation or not: you accept it or reject it. You make a counter suggestion: they accept it or reject it. You can't agree so you end up with the Energy Ombudsman via a formal complaint.

Alternatively, if you feel that you have right on your side, you take your claim to the Small Claims Court with all the supporting evidence.

That makes sense! I think rather than breaking it down hour-by-hour I'll explain my situation as above and request £200. I'll get as much evidence as I can to support this. Thank you

As you can probably tell, this is my first time dealing with energy companies in this way (in fact I've never had to negotiate a cash settlement before) so all your advice is really appreciated! I'll post here when it's finished to let you know how it goes

chanz4

creasechris wrote: »

I believe it wasn't. My landlord would have called whichever service he trusted most, and I don't think he even knows which supplier I use.



Yes - I was advised that I would have to wait until everything is sorted and my bill amounts calculated before entering discussions concerning compensation, but they couldn't give me a timeframe for when the mess would be cleaned up! I'm taking it to be anywhere from two days to six months. Anywhere in between would be fine. Thanks for the links and advice

The date I first clearly complained would be yesterday, so that's no issue - before then I just phoned and politely explained all the mistakes they were making. (I was in contact with their complaints line once before, but never got a reference.)



Starting at a higher amount makes sense, thanks!

To be honest, £200 seems fair for the amount of effort I've put in making this right, and the amount of stress it's caused me (in particular four days before a bill was due they put £5,800 of gas on my account for absolutely no reason). I suppose I can try and break it down:

• Estimated four hours on the phone (including hold times etc - will they have a record of this?)
• Four hours emailing EDF (justifiable? It was nPower's fault that they didn't change the meter on the system when I first told them in July - if they'd done this there would be no problem with EDF)
• Estimated five hours or more of administration time (taking extra meter readings, reading nonsense letters, rebudgeting etc.).

I would then have to justify the cost of my labour at ~£15 an hour... perhaps tricky as a student, even though my time is worth more than that to me. I wouldn't take a job for £15 an hour, put it that way. I just don't have the time.

I really feel that a three-figure compensation amount for these six months of stress is valid. Is there anything else I can "charge them for" to at least get the negotiations started - for example, could I slap on a £50 fine for the erroneous £5,800 of gas, or would they stop taking me seriously?

Many thanks for all your helpful replies!

If the supplier did not authorise the meter change, as under section 2b of the gas act. You do know as the account holder you maybe in hot water, its what we class as substitute meter in the industry. Only the supplier or its agent are authorised to change the meter. NOT your landlords, so I wouldn't kick off too much or they may just twigg that its not an authorised meter swith in which case the previous supplier is blameless on this occasion .

creasechris

chanz4 wrote: »

If the supplier did not authorise the meter change, as under section 2b of the gas act. You do know as the account holder you maybe in hot water, its what we class as substitute meter in the industry. Only the supplier or its agent are authorised to change the meter. NOT your landlords

This is a little concerning!

It was because he smelled gas, so I imagine he called the National Gas Emergency Service, and they sent someone out to swap the meter. Would they not be authorised?

I can contact him to find out exactly what he did if it makes a difference, but all the communication I've had with nPower and EDF has been very accepting that the switch was done in good stead, and they never mentioned anything like this.