land dispute solicitors fault?

minimoto

We purchased a house 2 years ago.

There was some too-ing and fro-ing about the extent of land to rear of property. Estate agent and Solicitor lead us to believe it all belonged to us with a 'right of way' across a small section at the back to access a field behind(this was verbal nothing in writing) we flattened the land off, it was a steep ravine originally,to use as parking as soon as we moved in.

Just before xmas a chap appears who bought the land along with a property further up the lane in Aug 2014. He pulls out his deeds and starts saying he wants to park his vehicle on part of the land (outside our kitchen window) wife said no, its ours etc. After studying both sets of deeds it appears half of the land does belong to him, before anyone says it yes we should have done this before but we relied on our solicitor-rightly or wrongly.

I offered to buy the land, had a surveyor out who said its basically worth nothing as a section (its a space big enough for a small car 7-8square metres roughly)only us or him would use it so offer him a gesture say £1000 and pay his solicitors fee's. So this we did.

He refused had his own surveyor out who allegedly valued it at £5,000 (wont let us see the report, we gave him ours), we down loaded the title register and he paid £89k for the house and land with the house next selling sept for £75k you could say he paid £14k and the parts hes selling is less than 2% of total according to the surveyor.

Does the solicitor have any laibility of do we have to just pay his demands?

Hoploz

I think you would need to find something in writing regarding solicitor giving you incorrect info.

AdrianC

"Deeds" are irrelevant. The relevant plans are the ones that appear on the Land Registry's website. Assuming they agree with the paper deeds, did your solicitor not ask you to agree that you were buying what you thought you were buying, that the borders on the plans tied up with your expectations?

What he may or may not have paid for the land is irrelevant. The only relevant figure is one that you and he can agree on, however you arrive at that.

Hoploz

When you say half the land belongs to the other person, how do you mean? Could there not be some compromise?

moneyistooshorttomention

The "Title Plan" would, presumably, be newer than the "Deeds"??

There is an awful lot of confusion, it seems, when people use the wrong terminology and mix the two up.

Assuming that it is indeed the "Title Plan" that you are looking at here and horrified to find that you don't own some of your own land (well the vendor told you it was....:mad:) then I am wondering about you finding a (tactful) way to say to your solicitor words to the effect of "I'll forget about belting you round the neck for not doing your job properly, provided you send a suitable letter to that vendor of ours and lay down the law in no uncertain terms that what he did to us amounted to "Misrepresentation" ".

Hopefully that might put the wind up that vendor enough that he will compensate you for the money that particular little lie he told you has cost you to put right.

Misrepresentation is deemed to be a very serious offence that potentially can lead to action by the unfortunate buyer by up to 15 years later and compensation by the vendor can go as far as having to buy the offending house back off the buyer.

So, if that inadequate little solicitor of yours can make that point nice and clearly to Devious Vendor perhaps there is some hope of a refund from him for this unexpected expenditure.

BTW - I'd be willing to bet the newcomer on the scene here who claims (rightly or wrongly) to own half your land has had it valued at an "after the land was levelled" price, as it certainly wouldn't be worth much to him as a parking space if it was still a ravine. Presumably any price set to buy it off him would be based on the state the land was in BEFORE you did that work to it?

minimoto

The half of the piece of land is the size of a car, no negotiation as we want it all. When we purchased it was overgrown track which widens out to his field, it was a deep ravine which was inaccessible by vehicle. there were no reference points as such to judge the part which was ours as it widens out to his field.

Solicitors told us he only had right of access across the back strip, but as I said it was inaccessible. The irony being he probably wouldn't have been bothered about it if we hadn't have levelled it off (at our expense).

We discussed our plans to make off-road parking at length with the estate agent and solicitor and nobody said no it's not your land. By deeds I meant the land registry docs.

AdrianC

minimoto wrote: »

We discussed our plans to make off-road parking at length with the estate agent and solicitor and nobody said no it's not your land.

The EA probably never saw the LR paperwork, and the solicitor probably never saw the reality on the ground. You're the only one who saw both.

How does the reality on the ground compare to the LR paperwork? Is it obvious that there's a difference between what you THOUGHT you were getting and what you were ACTUALLY getting?

Did you not see the LR plans at all before exchange?

moneyistooshorttomention

Have you met the vendor in person at any point? If so, what did he say about the extent of land ownership?

What did the vendor say in the legal questionnaire he would have had to fill in?

minimoto

The state agent advertised with "potential for off-road parking" ie we had to level it off, never spoke to vendors as it was an empty property only ever saw estate agent.

When we saw the deeds we did think the area looked a different shape to on the ground, but like I said there no reference points it just widens plus it was a steep incline, then becomes a field. But when you look at his title the shape of his field and how it lays adjacent to our property shows he does own the land. His field partially wooded so you can't see boundaries but obviously on the register it's from above and it's obvious. We were never shown these before completion or it would have been obvious!

All solicitor said was he has access over our land to his field... She even suggested at the time contacting the owner and billing him for half the work as it would enable him easier access, but we thought that was cheeky so didn't.

The solicitor did actually see the land in real life her father in law lives somewhere near she and can see the house/land from his window she told us her husband remembers them heard ing sheep up the hill in the 60's!!

Davesnave

Solicitors do not usually get to see the properties they do the conveyancing for, so I'd say it's imperative for a purchaser to confirm that the land on the title plan matches what they believe they're buying.

This need not happen with both in the same room at the same time, but it needs to happen. The question is, did it?

When we bought the property we own now, there were four discrepancies in the paperwork, including one on the title plan, so we insisted these were rectified before proceeding further. The solicitor couldn't spot the plan error; that was entirely down to us.

In this case, when the other party had the land valued at £5k, might that have reflected a supposed uplift in house value with exclusive parking rights?

However, if you cannot see the relevant part of this valuation, it may as well not exist!

AdrianC

minimoto wrote: »

When we saw the deeds we did think the area looked a different shape to on the ground, but

And you didn't think it worthwhile checking?

But when you look at his title the shape of his field and how it lays adjacent to our property shows he does own the land.

The plan you looked at would have had the shapes of the neighbouring properties marked on it.

We were never shown these before completion or it would have been obvious!

Really? Wow. OK, there's one that obviously got dropped. Every solicitor we've dealt with has been very keen to make sure that we saw the plans, agreed the plans were what we thought they were, and that the ground tied up with the plans.

The solicitor did actually see the land in real life her father in law lives somewhere near she and can see the house/land from his window she told us her husband remembers them heard ing sheep up the hill in the 60's!!

Having seen it in passing a while back is somewhat different from ensuring the plans and the ground match.